Moontown

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, I have
listened to many speeches today, Sir, but I want to say
something today and I hope that at the end of my speech
that we will be able to convince voters that they need not
fear the politicians.
Mr. Chairman, while canvassing, I kept hearing one
thing, Sir, among the young people, and that was that, “If
I vote people would know who I voted for.” I am calling
on the Electoral Office to assure…
Asides.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, I am
calling on the Electoral Office to assure young people that
politicians do not have any right to look at their vote.
Asides.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, I am saying
that the officers have a right to let the voters of Barbados
know that no politician can give the impression that if they
vote for part ” X or “Y,” that they would know who they
vote for.
There are politicians who would go to people and
give the impression that if they vote one party or the other
that they would know. I am saying that if you stop that, a
lot more people would vote in Barbados.
Asides.
Rt. Hon. 0. S. ARTHUR: On a point of order. Mr.
Chairman, I need to point out to you, Sir, that the
Honourable Member for St. Lucy is pointing his finger at
the Member for St. Michael West when he is making that
very extravagant charge about politicians. I would not want
the Member for St. Michael West’s integrity to be brought
into question at this time.
Asides.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, the
impression that is given …
Asides.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: The impression that is
given, Sir, is that people can go and look at your ballot. It
is the duty of the Electoral Office, Sir, to educate the
people that it cannot happen, and the only way that it can
happen is if you do it by an Order of the High Court, Sir.
A lot of people would not want me to make this
point, Sir, because they did the same thing. They told
people that if they voted for ” X party or “Y” party, that
they would know who they voted for. We must stop trying
to abuse poor people by giving the impression that we
would know who they voted for. Sir, it is foolishness, and
I am saying that if the Electoral Office does the job it
should do and educate the people, Sir, we would only get
between 5% and 10% in the increase number of people not
voting in this country.
I have to tell people, Sir, that if they did not vote,
people will know, but if they voted, no one would know.
It is a fact, Sir, because if people do not vote, all you have
to do is look at your list and you can see. Whenever you
go and vote, even if you put the ” X through all the names, m
no one would know who you have voted for. It is
something that the Electoral Office should educate the
citizens of Barbados about.
Mr. Chairman, I have listened to many speakers, and
everything went back to 1981. 1 want to recall, Sir, that in
1981 there was a lot of talk about electoral fraud. It is
amazing, Sir, that the time in 1981 it was one party, but
today you are hearing that a member of the ruling party, at
the time, admitting that there is a possibility that some of a
the charges made by the opposition party, at the point in
time, could be correct.
Mr. Chairman, if you go back to the newspapers of
1981, after the elections, you would see the charges made.
It is only now in 1996, Sir, that we are hearing that the
charges were correct. When there were made at the time,
Sir, the impression was given that the opposition were sore
losers, and that there was no basis for the charge.
Mr. Chairman, no one on the opposition side, Sir, m
could have interfered with the computer to make sure that
certain people who should not have voted in St. Philip
North, voted in St. Philip North.
Sir, what I am hearing today is exactly what I heard
in 1981. 1 want to know how come the Honourable
Member for St. Thomas, who happens to represent me,
only today dealt with a case like that when he should have
dealt with it in 1981. I will leave the dead. I am not here
to defend the dead, and I am not prepared to speak of those -a
who are passed already.
Asides.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, I will also
like the Electoral Office to make sure that all the
presiding officers know their roles, and I will also like
them to read the law to them because I am sure, Sir, that
if that is done, a lot of things that happened in 1996 and
1991 would not happen again. I am saying, Sir, that
sometimes it is because of the ignorance of the law that
some of these things happen.
- I do not know why the Government side would want
to quarrel with me. When the Honourable Member for St.
Thomas was saying what he had to say, nobody said
anything.
Asides.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: You should have said to
him to stop talking, but you cannot tell me to stop talking.
- Mr. Chairman, I am saying, Sir, that we must see it as our role to encourage people to vote. We cannot
continue to encourage people to believe that because we
are politicians we would know who they have voted for. It
is cheap politics, and you will never see that type of
politics practiced by me, Sir. I would alway try to make
sure that instead of doing that Sir, that I try to swim
against the tide.
Thank you.

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Deputy Speaker,
unlike the previous speaker I am not going to put the
blame on the Barbados Light and Power and I am going to
tell you why. Two years ago I took my car and went right
through St. Lucy.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, the number is L1234. I went
through St. Lucy and took down the numbers of the poles
and submitted a letter to the Barbados Light and Power.
They sent back a letter to me stating that they have
surveyed the poles and the ones in orange are the ones
which they have recommended to the Ministry of Transport
and Works to be the ones for lights. The letter was copied
to the Ministry of Public Wo&s. I have not received a
letter since two years ago from MTW telling me that what
Light and Power said to me was wrong. So you know, Sir,
I am going to blame the Minister. I have told the Minister
on more than one occasion that if he has a problem with
the Minister of Finance let me know and I will help to
defend him. Because I feel that in this Assembly the
interest of poor people should be represented and these are
lights where poor people live. Wherever there is a terrace
in Barbados, you do not even have to ask for a light. They
know where to find a terrace. Before a house is up, the
lights are up. But wherever there are poor people they
cannot get lights for those poor people. So I am not going
to agree with any Minister or former,Minister who is going
to come in here and try to shift the blame from
Government to Light and Power. The only way I will
change that is when I.see a letter from MTW telling me
that they have sent on a letter to the Barbados Light and
Power telling them to install the lights in St. Lucy. But I
have not received that letter so I will have to stick with the
Barbados Light and Power.

Regarding this loan, Sir, I have a couple of problems
with it. I see that it is stated in ECU - it is a sugar term,
EQ’s. One is not sure when one of these currencies is going
to move away, Sir. Remember, Sir, that we borrowed
money in the 1980’s and I am always talking about that. I
am always warning Government about this, but yet still
they are not taking any lessons. I did not give them advice
because the advice that I gave in 1984 is that we should
not be borrowing anymore money from the Japanese
market because the sugar industry was the first people to
borrow a Japanese loan. Do you remember that, Sir? They
borrowed it at a lower rate and by 1986, Sir, they were
paying double. He wants to hear the history. I will tell him
the history. A bank in Barbados called the CDB borrowed
money from the Japanese too, but when the sugar industry
wanted to borrow money from them they passed on their
debt to the sugar industry, and that is no lie. There was
enough evidence in the economy at the time when the
Barbados Government went to borrow money from the
Japanese Market to tell them that they should not have ,
borrowed money, but the Government went ahead. I am
saying today that the problems that we had in the 1980’s
the Barbados Labour Party must not only be the ones to be
contradicted and castigated. The Caribbean Development
Bank must take the blame for some of the crises that we
went through in the 1980’s and 1990’s. It is not only the
extra-regional banks that put us in a bind. But it was the
Caribbean Development Bank. If they want to challenge
that, tell them that Dennis Kellrnan is prepared to defend
what he said today. I am prepared to defend that. They
have the evidence. If they want to come and say that the
Barbados Labour Party had the evidence and did not use it,
that is a different matter. But they had the evidence.
Sir, when I see a loan in EQ’s, it frightens me
because even though the interest rate is only 3 per cent per H
annum there is a possibility that the interest rate will
remain the same and the basket of currencies might
increase. So what we might have to pay of $15 million in
principal might end up being $100 million dollars in
principal. You know if the interest on this is $6 million and
when the principal increases the interest will rise to $12
million. So we have to be very careful when we come and
say that we have some nice loans and how low the interest
rates are.

Sir, I have already warned the Prime Minister in this
Assembly that he should be very careful that before he
goes and signs anything that he should consult the Central
Bank of this country to make sure that there is no
possibility of these currencies rising. If I have
that assurance, Sir, I have no problem. But I am one of
those people who honestly believe that we should have a
separate department in the Central Bank studying things
like these. Every time we go to borrow a loan there should
be some expert in the Central Bank sitting down and telling
us - look, this is the market that we should be borrowing
on for the simple reason that 10 years from now the
possibility is this or that. He is not going to be exact but he
- can look at the market trends and he can decide which
currency we should be borrowing. If we believe that there
is a possibility that we have a problem, the safest market
to borrow in is in the U. S. Market. I believe the
Honourable Member for Christ Church South and the
Honourable Member for St. Michael South will agree with
that. Because seeing that the rates are fixed, you can
always plan and budget on the U. S. Market but you can
never plan and budget using the Japanese Market, London
Market or the EQ’s.

Sir, I am saying that even though on paper this loan
might look good but 5 or 6 years from now we might hear
the Minister of Finance - and I will have to give him some
support because I will remind him that he did not borrow
it but we have to repay this loan, and I will make sure that
I I will give him as much moral support as possible. But we
must guard ourselves against these things, Mr. Deputy
Speaker, and we must be extremely careful about how we
are prepared to just run and agree with everything that is
placed in front of us. But, Mr. Deputy Speaker, in my ear
I am hearing something telling me that in 1994 there was
- a tune singing in Barbados that we should not have sold the shares of these monopolies to one cqmpany. We have
a golden opportunity today, Sir. In 1994 or 1992, we were
asking them a favour. Today, they are asking us a favour
and I am saying that they are asking us to guarantee this
loan. We should be telling them: “Look, point one. You
have to sell the people in Barbados some shares. The
shares that were sold to you. we want to see them
distributed across Barbados.” I feel that the Government
has a golden opportunity because, if they do not do this
today, they cannot come back to the Barbadian public and
.- tell them anything about 1992 or 1993 because they had the
best opportunity ever. They have a better opportunity than
the DLP, NDP or even themselves. I am saying, Mr.
Deputy Speaker, that they cannot sign this loan on behalf
of the Barbados Light and Power until they negotiate on
behalf of the public of Barbados because there is enough
evidence that they had been asking to buy shares in the
Barbados Light and Power and the Telephone Company.

Today, we have the opportunity to deal with the Barbados
Light and Power and I am saying that before this loan is
signed by the people of Barbados they must have a right to
buy some shares in that company.
Let me admit something. I am not a believer in
shares. If I had my way, I would ask for some bonds at 14
per cent. But I do not have my way. That is my leader. If
he believes in shares, that is his right. So I will support
him and that is why I am calling for the Barbados Light
and Power to put some shares on the market because I am
supporting my leader.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am saying that the poor people
of Barbados have a right to get some bonds at 14%. If the
rich ones want to buy shares, there is nothing wrong with
that, but I feel that there should be a special issue of bonds
for the poor people of Barbados so that they can get a
guaranteed retum on their investment. That is exactly what
I was talking about a month ago when I said I could not
support the security exchange because they tell you when
not to pay dividends but they do not tell you when to pay.
I will never encourage any poor person in Barbados
to buy shares until that system has changed, because
nobody can come to the poor people of Barbados when
they need capital and beg them to buy shares and then they
turn up at a board meeting and say they are not issuing any
dividends. I am saying, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that as long
as poor people are asked to buy shares and as long as a
government is asking poor people to buy shares they must
change the law to protect the interests of the poor people.

The same way they are prepared to change the law to
protect the interest of the rich, the interests of the poor
people must be protected and I will continue to fight on
this level.
I know you do not like poor people, Sir, but you will
not change me.
Aside.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: This debate is a bit too
high for you. I would know.
Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You mentioned something
about not liking poor people. I wonder if you are
attributing that to me.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Of course not.
Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay. Go on.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: You might not be poor but
you still like poor people, Sir.
So you see, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have a situation
in Barbados where the history of issuing shares is clear.
The history is that whenever large companies want money
they come to the public and they issue their shares but
the poor people never have a right to dictate the policy of
those companies and you can always tell when there is
a cash flow problem in those companies because they
come to the poor people of Barbados. If we have the
security exchange continuing to regulate the market the
way they are then you are going to get a situation where
there will never be poor people willing to invest in
companies.

If we want to expand the private sector, we must pass
the necessary laws to make sure that poor people are
prepared to remove their money from banks and put it into
the equity market. Once we cannot get poor people
removing their money from banks into the equity market
we must,ask why. I am telling you that poor people do not
have any confidence in these companies because they see
them only coming to them when they need money. When
they are flourishing, they do not come. And this is bad.
Just self-interest. We have to get away from that, Mr.
Deputy Speaker.

When you are guaranteeing a loan it means that if
you do not pay, it is your loan. It is as simple as that. This
is the Government’s loan. There is no guarantee that
Barbados Light and Power will ever be able to repay this
loan and I am saying that the mere fact that the
Government is being asked to guarantee this loan tells me
that the bank that is lending the money is saying that it
cannot rely on the Barbados Light and Power but it can
rely on the Government. So it tells me that the Government
has clout. If you feel as a Government that you do not have
clout, come and change position and we will show you
exactly what to do.
Aside.

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: I am saying, Sir, in the
90s they accused us of not giving shares to poor people
and now today they have a golden opportunity to give such
shares to poor people and they are removing themselves
from the speeches they made in the 90s and they are now
behaving as if they have never mentioned anything on
behalf of poor people. I do not know, Sir, if that speech
about no poor people has gotten to them, but I know on the
Back Bench I have some support for this, because already
one member has gotten up and spoken on behalf of poor
people and he said that no one would frighten him. He
cannot be referring to me because I am always speaking on
their behalf.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am asking that the Minister of
Finance, and I am very sorry that he is not here today, use
the golden opportunity to negotiate with the Barbados Light
and Power to make sure that they issue some shares on
behalf of the people of Barbados. The same thing that they
were asking for in the 90s and the shares that the people of
Barbados were asking, I am asking that they use their
offices to make sure that they get the rights to buy those
shares. We are still in the 90s.

I want to remind Barbadians again that the interest
rate is not the only factor to judge whether a loan is a good
loan or not. I have been reminding this House, but it seems
to me that you say things in here and people cannot
understand when you are making good points. It seems to
me that we are going to have to reserve our good points
and issue bad points for them because it seems that is the
only thing they can understand. It is very regrettable but if
you had a situation where in the 80s it happened and in the
90s we are about to repeat the same error. You can only
come to the conclusion that good advice is not good
advice. Thank you very much.

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Speaker, I want to say
from the outset that whenever we are discussing Highway
2A the i.mpression is given that the contractor is to be
blamed fix the delays on this highway. I want to refresh
your mernory, Sir, that the contractor was interviewed on
many occasions and he outlined that the reason why he
could not proceed with his work was because he was
waiting .for pipe to be laid by the Barbados Water
Authority. One gets the impression that whenever the other
side wants a whipping boy or girl, they first start by
sending their salvos either in the Press or on the Floor of
this Assembly, so I hope that two or three days from now
we will not be accused on this side for backing the
contractor and that they will be accusing the contractor for
delaying the road.

I am happy that the Minister admits that the land
acquisition he is doing today has something to do with the
delay of this road being completed. I am not going to allow
the Minister with his side remarks to give the impression
that the contractor is delaying this road. I am also calling
on the Minister seeing that he is prepared to have new
policies to make sure that whenever he is doing a road and
there are side roads leading to people’s homes, that those
roads are repaired in the same way that the roads leading
to rich people’s homes are repaired. The Minister knows of
what roads I speak.

When one travels on Highway 2A one sees that
whenever there is a road leading to a plantation house, that
road is repaired straight to the plantation house. As you
know, Mr. Speaker, I have to travel along Highway 2A and
I also have to travel on the road from St. Thomas Church
down to Holetown, which butts and abounds Highway 2A,
so I am still within the debate, Sir. I would have thought
that when that road was paved the people along that
highway would have been given the privilege to at least get
10 feet of asphalt leading to their homes. It is amazing that
on one side where you have the poor people the
road stops, but where you have the rich people on your
right going down the road continues.

Mr. Speaker, in Clermont I am seeing the same thing,
so I am calling on the Minister to come to this Assembly
and make sure that in Cane Garden and in Jackson the road
is not only the Cane Garden main road but that it goes
through the tracks also. The same way it can be done in
Clermont and also along the road that leads from St.
Thomas Church to Sunset Crest and on the right you can
get the workmen to go right but cannot go left by the poor
people, I would expect them to correct that. I am saying to
my friend, and he knows who I am speaking of, that I
would defend him against anybody on that side if he
decides to ask for the roads to go to his constituents, those
who are poor.

I understand also, Sir, that there is a new policy
where the Government will be paying everybody they owe
money to. I want to remind them that the Cement Plant … -
Hon. G. W. PAYNE: On a point of order, Sir. The
Honourable Member in his anxiety to make himself heard
is misleading the House in many areas. I was waiting until
I wind up but I think I should intervene at this point. There
are just two points, one with respect to the …
Mr. SPEAKER: Now, remember you are only on a
point of order.

Hon. G. W. PAYNE: I am on a point of order. He is
misleading the House. He misled the House earlier by
saying I said the contractor delayed the project. I did not
say that. When I come to wind up I will tell this
Honourable House who delaycd this project, who is the
Honourable Member on that side that delayed the project.
I will do that in the winding up.
With respect to the new policy, the new policy I
referred to did not mention anything about paying any
arrears, the new policy has something to do with the new
acquisitions, but the arrears they have accumulated have
nothing to do with the new policy.
I just thought I should correct those.

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Speaker, one could
tell that some people do not go to church, because thcre is
a famous saying in the Bible that you do not put new wine
in old wine skins. It is a new policy but you are going to .- leave the old where the old can only corrupt the new.
I also want to remind the Minister that he was in
certain columns in this country stating that the contractor
had delayed the Highway 2A project and the contractor
replied and said it was not him, it was because there was
a shortage of water mains.

Hon. G. W. PAYNE: Mr. Speaker, I do not know
what columns I was in to which the Member referred. I
know nothing of which the Honourable Member spoke and
the Honourable Member is misleading the House. The fact
that the date for a contract has not been completed does not
necessarily mean that the contractor is the person who is
responsible for the delay.

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN. I want to tell the Minister,
because two weeks from now he cannot come back and say
it is the contractor, so I am very grateful he has said on the
Floor of the House that it is not the contractor. I am
grateful to him because I want to be sure that that
contractor can get some more work and he is not blamed
for delaying the work. Thank you very much, Sir;
Aside.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: You cannot tell me when
to sit down, because I realise that this morning you have
not been picked for the team and you are hying to show
off your skills in here to get a pick.

Mr. SPEAKER: Please, let us continue.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Speaker, I am calling
on the Mhister to remember that in 1981, to be precise, the
nice people in St. Lucy gave that Government the right to
build a cement plant in St. Lucy and 15 years hence they
still owe the people money. So I want to know how you
can have a new policy from Day 1 and 15 years ago you
are going to ignore those people. The people of St. Lucy
are poor people and when I look through here I happen $0
sec some rich people’s names, but I will not call their
names today, because it is not right for me to call my
friend’s name in a debate like this but I am hoping that
because I said that they have rich peoples’ names in
here that the Minister does not ignore my friend
because he is rich. I know that he feels that he might be
poor but he is rich.

Mr. Speaker, with those few words, Sir, I am hoping
that they will soon come to this Assembly and tell me
when the poor people of St. Lucy will get some money and
I would also like to know when is the date of the payment
to my friend. Thank you very much.

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Speaker, I want to say
from the outset that I support this Bill. While we are
dealing with the public sector, we must be cognisant of the
fact that in the private sector there are many people who,
when they enter into employment with their employers,
they are given contracts and they are told that a percentage
of their salaries is placed in a pension fund. Strangely, Sir,
when the conlpany goes out of existence or something
happens, then one gets the impression that what you are
told in the beginning is not the same that is happening iii
the end.

Even, Sir, that you are given the impression that you
need not to fight for increases in salaries et cetera, because
you know that when you reach the end of your day that
there is something put aside for you. You continue working
with the understanding that 10% or 8% of your salary is
put aside for you. If the company is wound up you cannot
then go to the insurance company and say, ” I want that
10%.” - What is even more regrettable, Sir, that the same
insurance companies that are holding your money, you
cannot even borrow a mortgage from them. They hold on
to your money, take that money and lend it to other
people and they are not prepared to lend you one single
cent. I am saying, Sir, that if we are going to be addressing
pensions, we must be prepared to address pensions for
everybody in Barbados and not just for a few people.
constituents, there are people in your area who have been
affected by this.
Aside.

Ifeel the time is right, Mr. Speaker, that we deal with
pensions. I remember when we were sitting at the Joint
Select Committee, I said that we should have been
discussing pensions at that time.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN. That is right. That is why
I will speak for him. But I do not want you to go and say
bad things about him like how certain people made good
speeches in here and have gone cursing the man.
Asides.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: I am not talking about the
Bill I will never talk about that Bill until it is laid in this
Assembly.
What I am saying, is that I expect to see soon in this
Assembly, something dealing with pensions for everybody
in Barbados. We cannot, Sir, come at a time when we feel
that it is going to please a few people or a few voters, and - bricg legislation that only affects a part of the people in
Barbados and not all of the people in Barbados who have
been affected by this legislation.
Mr. Speaker, I keep hearing that the hands of the
people at the Income Tax Department are tied. I am saying,
Mr. Speaker, I have researched this, and I would like to be
corrected.

It is my understanding, Sir, that if you borrow money
- from a pension fund early, you have to pay 25%. I want to know how come poor people cannot draw the Government
25% but some big insurance companies in this country can
hold on to poor people money and lend it to their friends.
Is \hat fair?
We have the Barbados Shipping Industry Limited,
what is more disgraceful about the situation, bright
technocrats at the Barbados Development Bank who ought
to be teaching people how to invest money and how to - manage their money, people are telling them now that they
cannot be fair. You have educated people, you have trained
people how to manage money and now a few people sitting
down in an office somewhere to the south or the east of
here are going to tell them that if they give them money
they will drink it out and do other things with it.
Foolishness. If that is what poor black people are expected
to do in Barbados then we should not be in this Assembly
because we are neglecting our own people. As a
Parliament, we have a right to change the law, not
yesterday, but it should have been changed months ago
when it was first brought to this Assembly by myself.

Mr. Speaker, you have a part in this too. I know
when I say to you, I have to speak on behalf of your
Hon. D. A. C. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, I do not
speak ill of Speakers, Sir. As far as Speaker Weekes is
concerned next week I will speak well of him but ill of the
Democratic Labour Party.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: I cannot support you there.
You know that once you speak ill of the Democratic
Labour Party you have to face me and I know you do not
want to face me again. Anyhow I will not be side tracked.
I am saying to those gurus in Collymore Rock to stop
unfairing black people because if they do not stop unfairing
black people then they will have me talking about the,m all
the time. Release the people’s money.
It is regrettable, Mr. Speaker, that it is one insurance
company that is holding on to all the money belonging to
those poor workers of this country and the regrettable thing
is, I thought they would have learned from the Beckles
situation.
Aside.

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: It is the Barbados Mutual.
I am not scared to talk about the Barbados Mutual and they
know it because I have already challenged to take them
elsewhere on behalf of the workers. Mr. Speaker, a
message must go to those people in Collymore Rock that
both sides of this House do not agree.
Let me say something. I do not need to go back to
the Budget speech of this year but I heard the Prime
Minister state that he felt that when you have a pension
plan you should be able to borrow money for housing. I
thought by now that we would probably be discussing the
pension legislation making sure that something like that
could be operating. But people must learn to stop using
poor people in this country as if they are footballs. I
deplore anybody to come and tell me that if you give a
man his own money that he would drink it out. So you are
trying to tell me all those houses we see poor people living
in that they drank out the money and that is why they have
houses? That kind of foolish mentality dating back to the
sixteenth century must stop. We are going into the twentyfirst
century. These same poor people that you are talking
about are the ones who have sent their children to school
and now they are Members of this Assembly. I take it as
a personal insult because when you are talking about
poor people you are talking about me. I am not ashamed to
tell anybody I am a poor man. But the problem in this
country is that there are too many people who are poor and
they feel that they must hurt the rich. They feel within
themselves whenever they speak they have to talk about
my brothers and sisters. Let me tell you something. My
brothers and sisters can be found anywhere that you
associate with the poor of this country and I will always be
there for them. Sir, that is why I will tell the sugar workers
of this country that once I am in this Assembly I will keep
pushing their case and I will tell the Barbados Mutual that
if they do not stop doing what they are doing to poor
people soon from now they will have to have all policies
that belong to the rich and the poor man in this country
will not be buying insurance from them. This myth that
they want to hold on to people’s money because they are
protecting their interest is foolishness.

Let me give you an example. There are some people
who work in the sugar industry who do not own a home
but have enough money in the pension plan that they can
give themselves a home but those people at Collymore
Rock are saying they are going to hold on to.the people’s
money. There are some of them who have left the sugar
industry and they do not have a job and they are made to
walk and beg while those people up in Collymore Rock are
driving around $200 000 cars. Are you are telling me that
I should be happy that those people are driving around
$200 000 cars because they are holding on to money that
belongs to poor people?

If we are going to have a Pensions Act, Mr. Speaker,
it must be a Pensions Act that goes right down to the
bottom and affects the poor of this country and is prepared
to uplift the poor of this country. If we are not going to
have that, do not ask me to get involved in anything, Sir.
I am not here to fan a fire for people who can fan a fire
for themselves. I am here to fan the fire for the
underprivileged people in this country and I will continue
to use this forum, Sir, and I will make sure that whenever
I use this forum, Sir, that I bring along the people from
Bank Hall and those nice areas. You do not have to worry,
Sir.

Mr. Speaker, I want the message to be sent to the
Barbados Mutual that one of the poorer politicians and one
that is prepared to say that he is poor and ready to fight.
The problem in this country is that sometimes we have
people who are poor and when they get over they forget
where they come from. We have got to stop that
foolishness because if we continue to do that and if we
continue to kick down the ladder the poor people will
always see us as their enemy.

Mr. Speaker, the statutory boards in this country have
a right to have the same privileges as the normal civil
servants. Mr. Speaker, the poor people cannot write letters.
Do you know what is disgraceful, Mr. Speaker? I have
seen letters where senior people can write the committee
and tell them they want their pension early and the
committee approves it. Do you think that is fair where
people have money and they did not even need the money
but the letter was written giving them their money but
when it comes to poor people they are saying, keep it back.
I understand one day a man addressed a meeting telling the
people they are going to keep their money for them
because they would drink it out and do other things and
we, as black people would get up in this Parliament and
agree with that foolishness.

Mr. Speaker, I will tell you something. If the others
are prepared to stand for this type of foolishness, not me,
Sir. I know what my position is. My position will always
be in the interest of those people who have to fight and
struggle and that is why whenever you hear the fight for
the small man you will always hear me.
The next bit of foolishness I am seeing happen is
coming from the Government side and I want it to stop. At
the Barbados Development Bank they did a little dance.
Now at BADMC they are doing the same dance and as my
leader told them today I am going to also make the same
call too. If you feel that when you are restructuring an
organization that it is going to affect certain people that
you want to continue, change the legislation. I do not
believe that anybody signing and saying that such and such
organization will be able to get severance pay even though ”
you are 65 or over. I believe that if you feel that everybody
over 65 should get severance, let it be the law but let these
things come through Parliament. Let us discuss them. It
happened at the BDB and now it is happening at the
BADMC. I am saying that those things must stop because
when you get that there is too much room in there for
political interference. I am saying if you bring it in that
way I will support it. So bring it. You need not fear, but I
do not want every minute that you are operating this thing
on a piecemeal basis where you are deding with this case
rlc and that case. People will tend to believe that you are
getting political. Like the BADMC, some people may say
you are only doing that because we have a by-election. I do
not want that. I want you to bring it to Parliament, change
the law and you will get my support. But as you are doing
what you are doing, you cannot get my support even
though I want the fellows over 65 to get some money
because the timing of it is strange. So I want the messenger
of the Barbados Mutual to understand that the MP for St.
Lucy is calling on them to respect the wishes of poor
people and the money does not belong to them. They are - only holding it in trust for those people. So free it up and
stop abusing poor people and taking their money and
lending it to all sorts of people who can borrow money
elsewhere and the same poor man that has his money in the
Pension Fund cannot get one single cent out of it.
I know, Mr. Speaker, that if a lot of people in the City had
that money in the Mutual they would have been lambasted,
because I am sure that the only insurance company that
would do that is Mutual. There is no way that Life of
Barbados would have done a thing like that.

- Aside.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Advertising? We are not
advertising in here. There are two cases to board and all
two cases lie right in Collymore Rock and that is a fact.
BDH and the Sugar Industry, both of them, are not at Life
of Barbados. They are the two champions, they tell me,
Life of Barbados and Barbados Mutual. You sav
advertising. I have a right to advertise. I will tell you why
I have a right to advertise. A lot of poor people get
mortgages from Life of Barbados and they do not have any
money in a pension fund there. Do you understand? So do - not start me up. When you are talking about goodness,
bring in goodness and we will talk about it. So if Mutual
wants me to talk good about them, tell them to stop
treating poor people the way they are treating them. Stop
holding on to poor people’s money and then I will have
nothing to say in this House of Assembly. Thank you very
much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. D. St. E. KEUMAN: Mr. Chairman, earlier this
year I complained about the amount of time that we spend
in this Parliament lodcing after the interests of certain
people in this country. I cannot seriously continue every
Tuesday or Friday to come to this Assembly and the debate
is channelled in one particular direction. .. I cannot honestly
believe that as an Assembly that we come here every
Tuesday and today we are now discussing a Bill that
relates to the Securities Exchange of Barbados and we are - not discussing changing the Companies Act of Barbados.
I cannot seriously take part in this debate for the
simple reason that any Act that tells me…
Rt. Hon. 0. S. ARTHUR: Mr. Chairman, Sir, on a
point of order. The Member is misleading the House. We
are not discussing a Bill. We are discussing a money
Resolution and if the Member is confusing a money
Resolution with an Act to amend the Companies Act, I can

understand the source of his confusion and will urge him
to follow his own advice and don’t participate in the debate.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Thank you very much, Sir,
for your intervention, but you know that you cannot change
my thoughts and I will continue on the road I am going. I
am saying Mr. Chairman, that anytime that you are asking
poor people in this country and the small man to invest in
large businesses when there is a section in the Companies
Act that states that nobody can tell directors when to pay
a dividend that we are wasting people’s time in this
Parliament.
We need to change the Companies Act to make sure
that whenever a company makes money … It is
discretionary and it should be changed, because if we are
asking small people to invest money in companies that are
making money and directors can then come and say …
Hon. D. A. C. SIMMONS: On a point of order, Mr.
Chairman. The Honourable Member has not pointed out the
particular section of the Companies Act but if it is in the
Companies Act it is a reflection of the old common law
principle. The payment of dividends is a discretion vested
in the directors, dependent upon whether a company has
made profit because you cannot pay a dividend from
capital. He should know that.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: I would like to find out
what is the point of order that the Honourable Member got
up on.
Aside.
Mr. D, St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairmm, he got up
to say exactly what I am saying that the payment of a
dividend is drscrefionary, that o ~ l yth e directors can…
Aside.
Mr. D. St. E. KILLMAN: Mr. Chairman, he can say
what he likes, but I am saying to you that if tomorrow a
company makes $2 million and the directors decide they
are not going to pay dividends the shareholders cannot do
anything about it, especially with the structure of the
companies in Barbados. So do not come with this and tell
me, and uy to fool people that they must pay dividends.

I am telling you that if you look at the structure of
companies in Barbados, most of them come to Barbados
for money when they need cash. That is a fact. Let me tell
you something, try issuing shares in successful companies
and see who get them. Whenever poor people try to get
some, they say that to encourage poor people to get shares
in this company, you are only creating work and they go
for the large block.

I am saying, Sir, that if we are going to be serious
about the Securities Exchange of this country, that we
must be prepared as a government to change the
Companies Act. Everybody would tell me that this is a
standard thing throughout the world, but Barbados can
be a first. I know that the Honourable Member for Christ
Church South would agree with that.
It is time that we set examples for other people to
follow. It is unfair to ask people to invest in companies
when they have no say in whether they are going to get a
dividend.

Let me give you an example of what I am talking
about, Sir. A small man, as I normally refer to them, Sir,
he has $10 000, he hears about a company that is issuing
shares, a successful company, he is accustomed having that
$5 000 in the bank and every year at 10% he probably
would get $500. He takes up that money, he buys shares
into a company in Barbados. Directors, the following year,
decide that ‘they want to expand the company and the
money they have, they want for the expansion of the
company and they are not paying a dividend.

What happens to that poor man? What is he supposed
to live on? What is that poor man supposed to live on?
That is exactly what I am talking about. Some people
before they listen, they jump up and put their foot.right in
their mouths.

I am saying, Mr. Chairman, that the Companies Act
of Barbados needs to be changed, so that the discretionary
measures of directors,should be taken out. It is wrong
because what can also happen, Sir, we could encourage
poor people to get involved in things that they do not know
about.

There could be directors, Sir, who, when they realise
that they need capital, they come to the market, they issue
the shares and when things have changed in the company
they use that policy to frustrate small business people, and
small people in this country to encourage them to sell back
their shares to the same directors.
I am saying that the policy and the Companies Act as
it stands, is not in the interest of small people and it needs
to be changed.
So if we as a Parliament are going to take up a $100
million to put in the Securities Exchange to enhance the
profits of other people, we must ask ourselves if we san
live with that. I am saying, Sir, that you cannot live sith
it, and I cannot’live with it either. The interest of the small
man must be represented.

This is only one piece that we will be discussing
today, but you will have plenty more going in one
direction. It is time for this to change. If we are going to
considef ourselves as serious politicians, and I do not care
how .much sports models people talk about, this is
something serious’to discuss. We expect serious discussion
on this. We do not expect people to come in here and take
up taxpayers money and give it away like that. When
certain things are questioned, they talk about sports model.
This is a serious problem. When serious issues are
being discussed, people must be prepared to listen.
Thank you very much, Sir.

RICE AND PEAS; CREAMED POTATOES

MACARONI PIE; TURKEY NECK SOUP

CORN MEAL COU COU; FRIED SNAPPERS

FRIED FLYING FISH; BAKED CHICKEN

BAKED LAMB; BEEF STEW; FISH GRAVY

STEAMED VEGS; TOSSED SALAD

Antigua and Barbuda hosted a Tsunami Protocol and Standard Operation Procedure teleconference on Wednesday at the National Office of Disaster Services (NODS).

Director of NODS Philmore Mullin said the Tsunami Warning Protocols form a part of the regional thrust for greater tsunami awareness following the catastrophic tsunamis that occurred in Asia. “The immediate provision of tsunami warning for coastal regions is essential in reducing and mitigating the catastrophic losses that such waves can bring,” Mullin said.

He noted that Antigua and Barbuda is among other islands in the Lesser Antilles which lie in a setting where major structural changes are occurring in the earths crust resulting in earthquakes, volcanism and landslides. As a consequence, all three known sources capable of generating tsunamis occur within striking distance of the Eastern Caribbean, and there are also distant sources across the Atlantic.

Mullin said, “In light of the fact that the islands are located in an active seismic province, the most likely tsunamis to affect the Eastern Caribbean are those which can be triggered by shallow earthquakes (50km depth) which are greater than magnitude 6.5.”

Arrival of damaging tsunami waves from the time of a seismic event within the Caribbean can occur almost immediately depending on the distance of the shoreline from the earthquake epicentre.

The teleconference is a follow up to a National Workshop for Adaption of the Caribbean Disaster Emergency Response Agency (CDERA) Tsunami Warning and other Coastal Hazards System’s Tsunami Warning Protocol held earlier this month. Representatives from CDERA and Alerting Solutions Inc. (ASI), representatives from the police department, Coast Guard, Emergency Medical Services, Red Cross, Antigua and Barbuda Defence Force, Antigua and Barbuda Airport Authority, Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs were in attendance at the workshop.

Antigua Sun

Costume designer and builder Chandy Lewis of Solid International Mas’ Troupe has blamed “heavy winds” for Miss Willy D Enterprises, Melyssa Bird’s fall on Monday night.

Lewis has refuted claims that the costume worn by Bird, contestant number one in the Queen of Carnival pageant, was not properly built.

The designer said the costume, which was built locally was “properly built and was ready a week before the show.”

He noted that the contestant was pleased with the costume which was conceptualised by her trainer and chaperone Ryan Gardener, Bird and himself.

Lewis said Bird had “a lot of time to practice in the costume,” adding “Nothing was wrong with it. Her movement was good. And it was a costume built for her and no one else.”

He said, “If it was not for the wind, all would have been well.”

Following Monday’s show, however, veteran mas’ and costume builder Colin “Wanga” Martin said the costume was, “Ill-proportioned and unbalanced. The costume was poorly built.”

According to Gardener, “Twenty minutes before the segment began Miss. Bird had on her costume and was taking photos with her friends and family.

“She was jumping up and we were telling her that is what we wanted to see on stage.

“There were no difficulties with it.”

Gardener described what happened as a “freak accident,” noting “There was a lot of wind.

The trainer said, in his opinion, the wind affected delegate number two as well.

“When she went on stage if the host and hostess did not call for assistance she would be blown off the stage. She was not falling down; she was being blown off the stage.”

He stated that like Bird, contestant number two was also assisted off stage, adding, “Her costume is way smaller and would have been way lighter.

“What went wrong with hers?” he questioned. “Are they calling it poor design, poor construction?”

Gardener said before making such a claim, Martin “should come and check the costume first.

“He should have checked it as a builder and as if you are going to judge it and then make a statement like that.”

Lewis said the costumes were prejudged before they went on stage and “Bird’s costume was the only one ready, the others were still sticking and gluing.”

He said at that time, “No one questioned anything about the costume. From the beginning there were no comments only after the accident.”

Although Lewis has been designing and creating costumed for mas’ for the last six years, this was his first queen costumes. Despite the accident, Lewis says he is committed to what he does and the public can continue to expect “quality costumes” from Solid Int’l.

“Our costumes are built here by me, my friends, close family and other associates,” Lewis said. “Come Carnival Monday and Tuesday you will see Solid Int’l very strong on the road and you will see that same Queen of Carnival costume of the road.”

Gardener noted that because of “Public ignorance and expert’s ignorance, Bird doesn’t feel she should be on the road,” so “I will be carrying the costume come Carnival Monday.”

Antigua Sun

The committee established to review government’s immigration, work permit and citizenship policies recently met with representatives from the Dominican Republic (DR).

According to a press release from the Ministry of National Security, the meeting was held on the 23 July

The Juan Pablo Duarte, through its lead spokesperson Theo Noso presented a paper to the committee detailing the association’s position on four matters namely – immigration and entry to Antigua and Barbuda, citizenship and naturalisation, labour and work permits and electoral reform.

“The committee had a very fruitful and in-depth discussion with the group and commended the representatives for their level of preparation and comprehensive presentation,” the press release stated.

The release further stated that the committee intends to conduct stakeholder meetings with as many representative groups as possible. “To this end, when the committee resumes its hearings in early September, other interested associations, stakeholders and or persons will be given an opportunity to express their views.”

Minister of National Security and Labour Dr. Errol Cort chairs the committee. It includes Bishop Kingsley Lewis and attorney at law E. Ann Henry.

The ministry recently hosted its first of a series of public consultations earlier in the month at the Multi-purpose Cultural and Exhibition Centre.

At the end of these exercises, the people’s collective input is expected to help shape a new national policy for Antigua and Barbuda on immigration, citizenship, work permits, and electoral reform.

Having conducted the requisite review with full public participation, the committee is expected to make written recommendations to the Cabinet of Antigua and Barbuda regarding any desired policy changes that should be made in respect of immigration, the granting of work permits and citizenship and the eligibility of non-citizens to vote in general elections in Antigua and Barbuda.

Jamacia Gleaner

Edmond Campbell, Senior Staff ReporterOPPOSITION SPOKESMAN on health, Dr Fenton Ferguson, says the Govern-ment’s programme of reform for the health sector may be wishful thinking given Jamaica’s pending resumption of a borrowing relationship with the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

In his contribution to the Sectoral Debate in Parliament Tuesday, Ferguson pointed to a study done by the Davidson Task Force, which highlighted the impact of IMF terms on the health sector during the latter part of the 1970s.

First casualty

Quoting from the report of the task force, Ferguson, a medical doctor, said: “The IMF conditionality in 1979 was very harsh and immediately public health became the first casualty.”

He reminded the House that the abolition of user fees, the development of primary health care and health reform of the ministry of health were critical elements of the Michael Manley administration of the 1970s.

“The primary victim of the IMF conditionalities was the social service, and health and education paid the highest price,” he said.

Serious demand

The opposition spokesman said that if the IMF terms were different and budgetary cuts did not affect the health ministry, the administration was still faced with serious demand arising from increasing health costs.

With a 40 per cent increase in the utilisation of drugs over last year, Ferguson questioned the health minister’s claim that Jamaicans saved $2.2 billion from the no-user-fee policy.

“The demand for services alone, with the fallout of user fees, was estimated to cost anywhere between $6 billion to $8 billion of taxpayers’ money,” he said.

“Minister, you have not saved any money from the removal of user fees, what you have done is robbed Peter to pay Paul,” Ferguson charged.