Parliament Debate, March 18, 1996 cont’d
Wednesday, July 15th, 2009Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, there is no
doubt in my mind that the Democratic Labour Party had
plans of producing more than 65 000 tonnes of sugar in
this country. If one looks at the same Development Plan
that the Prime Minister just referred to, one would see
that …
Aside.
Mr. CHAIRMAN: The present Prime Minister has not
been participating in this debate of late.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: … Okay, that the former
Prime Minister referred to, one would see that the sugar
industry at its maximum would have had 32 500 acres in
production and, if we use 30 tonnes to the acre, one would
see that would give you 975 000 tonnes of cane. If you use
a recovery of 8 tonnes of canes to one tonne of sugar, it is
possible that when all of the sugar land is in production
that you could reach 122 000 tonnes of sugar. Even if you
use the recovery of nine tonnes of canes to one tonne of
sugar, the evidence is here that you can get a production of
100 000 tonnes of sugar.
But, Mr. Chairman, that is not the main reason why
I am speaking in this debate. In August last year we had a
situation where there was severe flooding in Weston, there
was bad weather in the northern parishes of this country
and boats were destroyed in St. Peter, in Half Moon Fort,
in Six Men’s and also at Oistin’s. I would like to find out
from the Minister of Agriculture whether these boat owners
have been compensated or not, because to the best of my
knowledge they have not been compensated. When you
have a fishing industry that is reducing the import bill in
this country, one would have figured that the Ministry
would have done everything in its power to compensate
those workers. When you look at the statistics, you will
realise that the Democratic Labour Party made sure that the
fishing industry, the tourism industry and the agricultural
industry were well served, and we predicted during the
1994 election that the foreign reserves of this country, by
1996, would reach their highest level. One of our main
planks of the stabilisation programme is that we would
have brought back tourism to its peak, the sugar industry
to its peak and that the foreign reserves would have been
back at a level where we could afford to do whatever we
want. Therefore, Sir, my best prediction is that the foreign
reserves today would have to be over $500 000. I do not
know the figure and I would ask the Right Honourable
Prime Minister to tell me what is the figure now for the
foreign reserves. If it is over $500 000, then it means the
predictions we made in St. Lucy and throughout Barbados
were right.
Mr. Chairman, I am happy to say that if the cotton
industry was given the support we were giving it, the
foreign reserves of this country would have been even
higher, but what we have is a situation where instead of
producing the quantity of cotton we had predicted they cut
back on the cotton production, saying that the Japanese
farmers were not interested in buying our cotton. The
evidence is here. They knew what the foreign reserves
would have been and they tried to hold back on the cotton
production to reduce the level of foreign reserves which we
had predicted during the 1994 elections.
Mr. Chairman, we also have another situation under
Rural Development. When the fust supplementary was
brought to this House I supported it and I said at the time
it should not have been $800 000 but at least $10 million.
I said the reason why I would support the $10 million is
that I know the P r ~ ~Mn ein ister would be spending a lot of
money in St. PL, ILw~h,i ch 1 would support, and that I
expected the Prirnc Minister to spend some of that money
in St. Lucy. Today I am an unhappy man. Even though
I begged for more money for the Minister of Agriculture,
none of that money is reaching past the Judge Gap.
Instead of some of that money reaching past the Judge
Gap, I am now hearing that there is a new concept to rural
development and that at the Arawak Cement Plant we will
get rural development in terms of a landfill. Nonsense, Mr.
Chairman! We cannot accept that. When we talk about
rural development we expect. ..
Rt. Hon. 0. S. ARTHUR: Mr. Chairman, Honourable
Members of this House must not mislead this House. We
have already in this House indicated that funds are being
voted this year to establish a landfill at Greenland, and
unless the Honourable Member for St. Luc, a hallucinating
and believes that Greenland is in St. Lucy, he cannot now
say that the funds we spent at a landfill at Greenland are
funds to be spent at a landfill in St. Lucy. I would ask that
the Member’s remarks should not only be withdrawn, but
should be struck from the record.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, I am quite
happy to withdraw those remarks and I am proud to
hear the Prime ~ k s t ewr o uld like them to be struck from
the record. I must congratulate the Prime Minister for
informing me that that news report is wrong and that there
will be no landfill in the beautiful constituency of St. Lucy.
As you are aware, Sir, I have always said in this House
that in St. Lucy there is room for tourism development, and
to place a landfill in St. Lucy would destroy all the
prospects for tourism in that beautiful constituency.
As you are aware, Sir, St. Lucy has a lot of land
which is not far away from the marina in St. Peter. It is
good land for villas and things like that. All of that is part
of rural development. All we are asking you, Sir, is to just
put in the necessary infrastructure and we will find the
investors to create some jobs for you.
Mr. Chairman, I have pointed out already the Half
Moon Fort area that can be developed under rural
development. There is the Naval Base facility and I know
the Prime Minister is quite happy to see places like these,
Archer’s Bay, Cove Bay, River Bay, as beautiful projects.
Not only that, people get in here and talk about rural
development as if it is something new, and I want to revisit
a situation. We are still expecting a small airport that was
to have been built in St. Lucy since the 1970s.
Aside.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Yes, Mr. Barrow
promised that. Mr. Barrow said many things and it
took 25 years to see the vision. If we had a small airport in
St. Lucy …
Aside.
Mr. D. St.E. KELLMAN: Yes that is all part of the
land use policy. If we had a small airport in St. Lucy,
places like North Point Hotel, the Naval Base Hotel - I like
to refer to it as a hotel - these would be very viable
projects and you would not even have to advertise for
investors. People would be willing to invest in such
projects.
You cannot have a property like North Point and the
Naval Base and leave it lying like that. One of the main
planks of a rural development plan should be to develop
North Point and the naval base facility. Once you get
investments for those projects as a spin-off from the marina
in St. Peter you would see developments stretching right
through. You cannot deny that and I am saying you have
no other choice but to support me on this particular point.
Thank you.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, I must first
congratulate the Honourable Member for St. Peter for
producing figures to show that over the years from since
1986 to now the sugar industry has declined.
Aside.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: And I was the Financial
Controller. I was the Financial Controller at the time the
Honourable Member for St. Peter was at the “Bad MC” or
the ADC.
Mr. Chairman, I will not allow them to sidetrack me
because one missing point has been left out of this debate
and it is that the sugar industry was in decline and also that
the Democratic Labour Party in 1992 made the firm
decision to restructure the sugar industry and also to give
+ to the Honourable Member for St. Peter and all the others
on that side control of the sugar industry. That is why
today we have a situation - and we are not going to
castigate him for that. If he has decided that Bulkeley will
remain open I have no problem with that.
I would appreciate if he would tell this House also
that in early 1990s and late 1980s when Haymans was
about to be closed that there were people who stated that
Haymans sugar factory should remain and that a new
factory should have been built at Bulkeley and there were
good reasons for that. The reason was that if you had kept
Haymans in the North the sugar production of the North
I W O U n~o~t h ave reduced and also that Bulkeley, being the
mecca of the sugar industry, would have allowed all of
those farmers to have confidence in that area, and we
would not be discussing today whether the sugar industry
has declined or not, but there would have been confidence
out there with the small farmers.
A lot of people might not know but the majority or
nearly the majority of farmers …
Rt. Hon. 0. S. ARTHUR: Mr. Chairman, the
Honourable Member has given way. I should just like to
ask the Member, Sir, if he could advise the House to the
extent that the largest proportions of the new lands brought
back into sugar have been in St. Lucy whether the sugar
targets that he is recommending to the House would be
affected by his desire to see an international airport built in
St. Lucy?
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, one has to
look at development and one has to look at the situation to
see which development is going to be the more profitable
of the two choices to this country. One only has to look at
the mouthings of the Honourable Member for St. Michael
North where he is complaining today in one section of the
Press that the Arport is under seize and there is a need to
expand the Airport.
Hon. R. St. C. TOPPIN: Mr. Chairman, on a point of
order. I have not spoken on this issue.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMkV: Mr. Chairman, I am saying
that there is evidence in Barbados today - if he does not
want to acknowledge it, no problem. I can give the praise
to somebody else - that there is room for the expansion of
the airport services. I am saying that it does not make
sense fooling yourself that we will continue 60 have one
airport when there is need for another airport which would
be able to relieve the Grantley Adams International Airport
of the small aircraft, et cetera.
I am saying, Mr. Chairman, that the development I
am speaking about would complement the marina in St.
Peter and the Honourable Member for St. Peter is aware of
this for a simple reason. If you get a smaller airport in St.
Lucy which will be located, as the Honourable Member
knows, between Spring Garden and Spring Hall, and that
is what he is speaking abcut, it does not mean that you will
necessarily take a large i ortion of land out of agricultural
use. That is why he could afford to target us because he
knows that the BAMC is in control of some of that land at
Spring Hall.
That is why I am saying that, I cannot understand
why the Honourable Member for the City would criticise
the Democratic Labour Party over their agricultural policy
when there is evidence that the BAMC is performing well
and that they will turn around the sugar industry.
The sugar industry will improve this year and in
two years’ time, under the management of the BAMC,
from a crop of 38 000 tonnes to 60 000 tonnes. And it
is remarkable, Mr. Chairman. It is remarkable because the
BAMC, in two years’ time would have done what the BSIL
could not do in five or six years with price support.
We also had a situation yesterday, Sir, where we were
discussing whether we should export or import sugar. I
want to make it quite clear from this side, Sir, that when
you look at the carry forward sugar, when you look at the
foreign exchange gains that we stand to gain, when you
look at the fact that if you transfer the right to import sugar
to the BAMC their revenues will increase, I am saying that
if you go ahead with the decision to sell the sugar on the
local market, you stand to lose on three grounds: (1) You
stand to lose foreign exchange, (2) you stand to lose money
that could have gone to the BAMC and (3) you stand to
lose sugar that you could be holding as the carry forward
sugar.
You see, Mr. Chairman, we are dealing with an
industry that depends on the weather.
Asides.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN That is a good point. We
are dealing with an industry that depends on the weather
and in an industry that you have that depends on the
weather, you should be very careful to keep sugar in stock,
just because, if you have a situation where the weather is
not right next year you would have sugar to help you with
your contractual arrangements.
But it goes further, Sir. It has been a long time that
we have not had a situation where world market prices
have gone up significantly, and we cannot tell when it will
happen. But if we had sugar, and our cany forward stock,
we could benefit from the market trends whenever they
happen.
So there are four good reasons why we should keep
carry forward stock. I know that people will laugh at that
point but the Minister of Agriculture will not laugh at that.
The people at BAMC will not laugh at that either. I know
that if you sit down and discuss it with the experts at the
BAMC, they will tell you that it is better to keep that sugar
as carry forward stock, because you stand to gain four
times.
This is not a political point, I have nothing to gain by
making political points. But there was also a point made
this morning that, instead of allowing BSIL to import the
sugar, the Democratic Labour Party allowed the Barbados
Agricultural Development and Management Company to
import the sugar.
But you see people must understand that over the
years the money that financed BSIL, price support, came
from the taxpayers of Barbados. And when the right was
transferred to the “BAD MC,” or whatever you want to call
it, it was by the taxpayers’ money that it was being
subsidised because the BAMC belongs to the people of
Barbados and it belongs to the Govemment of Barbados,
but BSIL was owned by private people. So I cannot
understand how people can argue on behalf of the sugar
growers against the taxpayers of this country. I would like V
just to stop it.
Not only that, Mr. Chairman, there is a another point
that I would like to make, and the Honourable Member for v
St. Peter is aware of this too, that the bonds floated by
BSIL were redeemed by the Govemment of Barbados, and
I believe that the Honourable Prime Minister still has that
problem, because he still has to redeem those bonds. So
there is nothing wrong in the Honourable Prime Minister
having the right to have his hands on those funds instead
of BSIL, because he is the one who had to find the money
to redeem the bonds. So he has the right to have the excess
from the sugar difference when the sugar was imported into
this country.
The next point I would also like to make. Yesterday
I listened to the Honourable Member for St. Philip North.
Certain remarks made by the Honourable Member for
St. Lucy were ordered by the CHAIRMAN to be expunged
from the record.
And dealing with fishing harbours … .rr
Hon. R. N. GREENIDGE: This is the first time I am
rising on a point of order in this House, Sir. I never
addressed the case of Consett Bay. Consett Bay is in St.
‘John and I was speaking about a little nook in my
constituency.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, I must t
apologise, I meant Skeetes Bay and not Consett Bay. I am
sorry. I am glad that you corrected the name of the Bay but
not the facts. I am very glad.
Rt. Hon. 0. S. ARTHUR: On a point of order, Sir.
The Member is misleading the House, Sir. The Member for
St. Philip North said that there is need for a facility in
Skeetes Bay but the Member for St. Lucy is now
conceding that there is no need for a fishing facility in
Consett Bay. Nobody has today said that, Sir, but the
decision to put a fishing facility at Consett Bay, Sir, was a
DLP and a DLP decision. - He has told the House, Sir, that there is absolutely no
need for a fishing facility at Consett Bay and we are
agreeing with him, Sir. But we need to remind him that
the Democratic Labour Party decided not to spend money
that was granted to build a fishing complex in
Speightstown where there is a need in the North, and
decided, Sir, to spend money on Consett Bay, where the
Member for St. Lucy, who is shadow spokesman for
agriculture, Sir, has conceded, on the basis of all the
criteria that there is absolutely no need. I want to thank
him, Sir, for the service that he is doing the good
Government.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, I would
like those struck from the records because I never said that.
I said that those were the points made by the Honourable
Member for St. Philip North.
Mr. CHAIRMAN: You meant Skeetes Bay instead of
Consett Bay?
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: No, no, no, not the points,
the name. Only the change in the name so you do not go
down that road, Sir. But Mr…
Asides.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: I was talking about
Skeetes Bay. No, no, no. I said Mr. Chairman, when I got
back up, I apologised to the House for saying Consett Bay
when I meant Skeetes Bay. I made that quite clear.
Rt. Hon. 0. S. ARTHUR: On a point of order, Sir. I
am asking that all those remarks be struck from the record,
Sir, because the member for St. Philip North had said that
his contribution was to say that there was a need for …
Asides.
Rt. Hon. 0. S. ARTHUR: … But the man represents
Skeetes Bay. His contribution to the debate, Sir, was to
establish that there is a need for a fishing facility at Skeetes
Bay, the constituency that he represents.
The Member for St. Lucy, Sir, said that there is no - need for a facility at Consett Bay. He could not therefore,
Sir, have been properly representing the views of the
Member for St. Philip North but only had the name wrong.
If he wants to say to the House that there is no need for a
facility at Skeetes Bay, Sir, we agree with him.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, we know
that there is a need for a fishing facility at Consett Bay
because they still have “day boats,” they still have ice boats
and they still have hawkers in Consett Bay. But what I am
saying, Sir, is that the Honourable Member for St. Philip
I North said that there are not “day boats” up there anymore.
Asides.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: … it is at Skeetes Bay, that
there are not “day boats” anymore. There are no ice boats
there, and the ice boats that are from St. Philip are fishing
from Bridgetown, and that you hardly see hawkers
anymore.
I am saying that they are fishing in Bridgetown. He
said that.
Hon. R. N. GREENIDGE: On a point of order, Mr.
Chairman. Just to say that the Honourable Member is
misleading the House. The point which I was making was
a cause and effort point. I was saying, Sir, that the lack of
a facility there had caused those and that is exactly what I
had said, Mr. Chairman. And therefore, the Honourable
Member is really misleading the House.
Mr. CHAIRMAN: Based on what the Honourable
Member for St. Philip North had said, it therefore appears
your remarks were misleading and this is not what he was
saying, and therefore your reniarks should therefore be
withdrawn and expunged from the records.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: No. I said, Mr. Chairman,
that based on the fact, he would not deny that he said that
there are not day boats and that the fishing boats are in
Bridgetown. I would not know that, Sir.
Mr. CHAIRMAN: Honourable Member, the Chair is
ruling that in view of the confusion of your presentation
that those remarks with reference to what the Honourable
Member for St. Philip North said be withdrawn and that
you be allowed to make a speech in which it is clear
exactly what you are saying.
Mr. D. St.’E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, I have to
abide with your ruling but I will start.
Mr. CHAIRMAN: That speech that you gave, in view
of the contradictions I am asking that the record with
relevance to what the Honourable Member said be
withdrawn. I am therefore ruling that you be allowed to
make a speech making clear reference to what you are
saying otherwise the record will be confused. You have 15
minutes in which to make your speech.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, I think, and
this is no reflection on the ruling of the House, Sir, but I
believe that the records of the House should be called for
in this case because there is conflict.
Aside.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: I am not arguing with the
Chair. I am just asking the Chair for guidance and that is
why …
Mr. CHAIRMAN: The Chair is allowing you to make
over your speech which was withdrawn from the record in
view of the confusion and in view of the discrepancy in
relation to what the Honourable Member for St. Philip
North has said. I am therefore saying that you can begin
your speech now.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, I am saying
that the evidence is that at Skeetes Bay there are a number
of day boats, that the iceboats are fishing in Bridgetown
and that you can hardly find hawkers in the area. I am not
attributing these remarks to anybody, but you can hardly
find hawkers in Skeetes Bay and I am saying that in light
of all that information that the opposite of what was said is
happening in Half Moon Fort. I am saying that the finances
would be better spent then based on what was said to be
spent in Half Moon Fort.
I would also like, Sir, for some of the money to be
spent on Consett Bay. I am also saying, Sir, that the Right
Honourable Member for St. Peter should be happy that the
planners did not go ahead with the idea of the fishing
harbour in St. Peter. I am going to tell you why, Sir.
Speightstown as you know, is a very small town and I
believe that if you were to expand Speightstown that you
would need to dredge Speightstown and reclaim some land
in Speightstown. Then there is the possibility of cruise ship
passengers coming to Speightstown. There is the ability
that when you carry out that project that there will be need
for more shops in Speightstown and seeing that there is an
area in Half Moon Fort that can accommodate the fishing
terminal I feel it would be better to have the fishing
terminal at Half Moon Fort and allow Speightstown to
serve its rightful purpose as the second town of Barbados.
In light of having the Marina in Speightstown, in light of
having the cruise ships coming to Speightstown it would be
better if that fishing harbour goes to Half Moon Fort than
in Speightstown. I nearly said Six Men’s but then if it goes
to Six Men’s you would have to realign the roads in Six
Men’s and I know the Prime Minister will agree with me,
on second thoughts, that it is better to have it in Half Moon
Fort and not in Speightstown because it really interferes
with the development of Speightstown.
Mr. Speaker, we also have another situation where I
would like to see the land acreage to small farmers at the
Spring Hall Land Lease Project reduced from 25 acres to
5 acres. There are a lot of people in Barbados who would
like to get back into agriculture especially now that the
Barbados Agricultural Management Company has been
born so it is because of this interest in agriculture that I am
asking the Minister of Agriculture to quickly change the
policy at the Spring Hall Land Lease Project where he can
encourage more farmers to get involved in agriculture by
reducing their lots from 25 acres to 5 acres. Not only that,
but he must, at the same time provide the market for the
farmers. That is why I will continue to call for an agro
processing plant.
Hon. D. A. C. SIMMONS: I am not sure I understood
the Honourable Member properly. Is the Honourable
Member suggesting that Government should terminate the
leases? If that is so then he is asking Government to
commit illegal acts for which the Government would then
be liable to compensate the lessees for the unexpired
portion of the lease.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, no such
thing. All I am asking the Minister of Agriculture to do is
to go and negotiate with those farmers who have 25 acres
of land and who would like only to farm 5 acres to give up
the right without any cost to them or to the Ministry of
Agriculture and divide that land to other farmers who are
willing to work on the Spring Hall Land Lease Project.
So, Mr. Chairman, we have a situation in this country
where we have agriculture about to take off and the
evidence is there. The BAMC has completely turned
around things. The BAMC, not the BADMC. Sugar
production in one year’s time has moved from 38 000 to
60 000. What a good record of BAMC. Iam saying, Sir,
that cotton production was also up under them but because
of a change of policy, because somebody claimed that they
could not find markets you probably will see a drop. I am
sure, Sir, now that everybody knows that there are markets
for the cotton crops that the cotton production will be up.
I also want to say something to the Minister of
Agriculture. Alleynedale Plantation is a plantation that if
the right planning goes into it, it can produce nearly all the
vegetables you want on a yearly basis.
Aside.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: No, I am not saying that.
Nearly all the vegetables in the North and the Honourable
Member for St. Peter is aware of why I am making the
point. It is one of the few plantations in Barbados that has
the capacity to produce vegetables on a yearly basis and I
know the Minister of Agriculture understands what I am
saying. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.