Moontown

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Speaker, it is not
normal for me to congratulate anybody, but I would like to
take this opportunity to congratulate the Honourable
Member for St Andrew on his housing policy. The reason
why I can afford to congratulate him is that when I listened
to him I heard Husbands Development, I heard Haggatt
Hall Development and I sat back and said that these things
sounded familiar to me. I said if they sound familiar to me
they should sound familiar to the Honourable Member for
St. Philip South also.

I believe the Honourable Member for St Andrew is
batting on a good wicket, one that was well laid by myself
and the Honourable Member for St Philip South, where we
left some very good housing developments for him to
continue at Husbands and also at Haggatt Hall, so if he is
continuing the policies of the Democratic Labour Party,
then he has no problem in implementing a good housing
policy in Barbados. I would like to believe that he would
not only continue the ones in Haggatt Hall and at
Husbands, but he will also continue the others left
throughout this country.

With those few words, Sir, I just wanted to identify
that some of these projects are not new, they were projects
left there by the Democratic Labour Party.

Mr. D. St. E, KELLMAN: Mr, Chairman, after
listening to the various speakers in this Assembly this
morning, I am a bit worried about our system of
accounting in the public service, We are hearing that we
have expenditure budgeted for, and not expended, that we
have revenues that are projected at one level and they are
much higher than was budgeted for. We have a situation
that the Honourable Member for Christ Church South has
said in this assembly this morning that we are not
accounting for our accruals at the time of the Estimates,
and that is very important, because there are statutory
boards in this country that owe people money and when
they submit budgets, they do not include that expense in
the new budget, and it is worrying me.

We also have a situation where the paymaster account
is very high in this country, and I would like to see the
paymaster account extended. I would like to see the
expense because when it is expense, the surplus we are
talking about we would not have, so we should stop fooling
ourselves in this House that we have a lot of money to play
with, when we do not, because if we give the wrong
impression, the trade unions in this country will come and
say: “You have a lot of money so we should have a large
increase”. I would like to know if I am wrong. If I am
wrong I would like to be corrected, but the impression is
that we have a lot of money to play with. I know that
whenever workers hear that there is a lot of money they are
always asking, so we have to be very careful.

We also have another situation where it was said on
the floor of the House this morning that the IDE has
advised us to renegotiate the euro loan.
Hon. O. S. ARTHUR: Mr. Chairman, I am enjoying
the Honourable Member’s speech, but I really have to
intervene to say that he is on the point of misleading the
House. The IDB is not advising Government to renegotiate
the loan. I announced long ago that the Government had
determined that Barclay’s loan was too expensive and we
have been in discussion with Rothchild Inc. to replace a
25-year 13% loan with a loan with a different interest
structure. The IDB will help us put the loan on the market.
That is the point I made.

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: I am very glad, Mr.
Chairman, for that information. But I remember well that
10-years ago, and we seem to have a 10 year syndrome in
this country, the World Bank advised us that even though
we were told at the time that there was no need to borrow
the money, iluii it would have been good if we had gone
on the Japanese market and borrowed Japanese loans, I
remember that. If you doubt me you can ask the
Honourable Member for Christ Church South. It is a fact
that the World Bank advised Barbados at the point in time
to take the Japanese loans. I am saying that we, as a
country, must be very careful how we take advice from
those countries because I am clear…

Hon. O. S. ARTHUR: Mr. Chairman, on a point of
order. There is no record that the World Bank gave the
Government of Barbados any directions or policy advice in
relation to accessing the Japanese loan. If my memory
serves me correctly, Sir, a Mr. Geoffrey Bell was engaged
in 1985 as an advisor to the Government of Barbados in
relation to debt management, and the market placements
since then largely have been on the advice of Mr. Geoffrey
Bell, and not the World Bank.

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, I would
prefer to take the advice at this point in time from the
Honourable Member for Christ Church South because, on
a call-in programme, when I started to criticise the
Japanese loans the Honourable Member said to me that it
was advice from the World Bank.

Hon. Sir HAROLD St. JOHN: Mr. Chairman, I am
not aware of the identity of people who call on the call-in
programmes, n.or do I recall myself going on a call-in
programme except on one occasion when I had to correct
the Honourable Member for St. John with something to do
with Mobil. But, Sir, I have never had any knowledge of
the World Bank advising the Barbados Government on a
Japanese loan.
What I can tell the Honourable Member is, at the
time when the Japanese loans were made, I believe they
were readily available with a very cheap interest rate at that
particular period of time. But everyone knew that because
of the possibility of exchange with fluctuations that the
cheap interest rate might have, in the end, turned out to be
a higher rate. That was the position.

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Chairman, I am
extremely grateful to the Honourable Member for Christ
Church South. I totally agree with what he said in his last
statement because what happened at the point in time was
that we had a situation, and I keep warning this House that
interests rates are not the only factors to judge loans. We
had a situation that in 1985 the interest rate charged on the
Japanese loans were very low, but the World Bank was
quite sure that the Japanese yen would have fallen in value.

Mr. CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Member is asked
to note that while I have been giving some leverage to the
House generally to allude to such matters, I think you are
going a bit too deeply into matters relating to finance,
whilst we are discussing Head 13, Prime Minister’s Office.

Mr. D, St, E. KELLMAN: Yes. I agree, Sir, but when
we are talking about leverage, I can only deal with the IDB
and the World Bank because they were mentioned
previously on the floor of this House. That is why I could
enter debate into this matter. 1.50 p.m.

But I want to get back to the issue that we were
dealing with a situation where it was said that we will be
renegotiating that loan. My advice to you is that I would
think twice about it now because I know these international
institutions. I would run a bet that I strongly believe that
the pound (£) would drop in value. That is why they would
want to tie us to a new loan, at this point in time, exactly
what the Japanese did to us 10 years ago.

I would say to the Honourable Prime Minister to
check with the people at the Central Bank and ask them to
have another look at this loan. Ask them if there are any
projections or if they have any idea that there is a
possibility of the £ falling in value. Because we do not
want to have a situation where we tie ourselves into a loan,
where we put ourselves into a fixed rate situation only to
have to find out, when we have to repay it later on, that we
could have gotten out of the loan without being in a fixed
rate situation.

Mr. Speaker, like the Honourable Member for Christ
Church South, I agree with accrual system accounting
because if we have accrual system accounting adopted
tomorrow, all the surpluses that people are bragging about
will be deficits.
Thank you very

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Speaker, even though
the Minister said that this legislation was first thought of in
1988, one has to look at it from a new framework, Sir.
That is that we are in a situation where in 1988 we did not
have an Incomes and Prices Protocol but in 1995 we are
having a new Incomes and Prices Protocol. We are also
having another situation where our farmers will have to
compete with our Caribbean neighbours and also the North
American market for vegetables, et cetera as is happening
at the present moment, Sir.

In light of these things, Sir, we will find it very
difficult if I were to agree with this lock, stock and barrel
for the simple reason that there is no justification, Sir, at
this point in time for increasing costs to our local farmers
when they are at the same time trying to compete and keep
out vegetables from entering this country. As you know,
Sir, the North American market has economies of scale and
they can mass produce, whereas our farmers having to fight
the drought and other problems will not be able to compete
against those farmers. So we as a Parliament, Sir, will have
to rethink our position in charging fees at this point in
time.

We must look after the interests of our farmers and
we must be aware, at a time when we have a problem with
the mealy bug, that we cannot ignore the fact that that is
also one section covered under this legislation. If a farmer
has a problem with the mealy bug, that those services will
be charged for.

Further, Sir, in light of what was shown to us a
couple Sundays ago, where people are claiming that the
mealy bug might be in Barbados at this time, we must gear
ourselves to make sure that we do not put a situation where
a small farmer has a problem with the mealy bug but
because he knows that he is going to be charged a fee by
the Ministry of Agriculture, he fails to report that particular
case because he feels he cannot afford the cost. I am
saying that we have to look at these situations and make
sure we do everything in our authority not to put an
unnecessary burden on the poor people of this country.

Sir, I have a problem with vegetables. I cannot be the
M.P. for St. Lucy and agree with a policy that will be
inflicting a cost on the small farmers at the Springhall Land
Lease Project. At the same time I cannot be the shadow
Minister for Agriculture and agree with a cost that will
affect the farmers in Barbados at this time. In 1988
I might have agreed, because we did not go into an
economic programme with the IMF at that time. We did
not have the Incomes Protocol at that time, but at present
we have an Incomes Protocol, and if we are to respect the
principles of the Incomes Protocol, we cannot be inflicting
increased costs on the small farmers in this country. At the
same time we have predicted that the agricultural industry
is about to take off. We said in 1994, prior to the elections,
that by 1996 we should see growth in the sugar industry.
We also said we were expecting growth in the cotton
industry, so how can I today come to this House and agree
to a cost to these farmers which will set back the growth
of this country? I am not saying that there might not be
something which should be charged for, but we have to be
very careful how we time these charges.

We have to be sure, Sir, that if we have an outbreak
of the white fly in this country again the small farmer will
not be asked to undertake that cost. We must also be
careful that if we have a problem with the pink boll worm
in cotton we will not be asking the farmer to pay for that,
because there are some farmers in this country who would
see the pink boll worm and ignore the fact that it is in their
fields, and do you know what that means to the country as
a whole? It means that we will not be able to get any
revenue from our cotton crop.

Also, Sir, let us think about the onion blast disease,
We spent a lot of money in the early 1970s to eradicate
this disease. I remember the gentleman at Harrison College
in.the Entomology Unit and others at Sugar Technology
Research and CARDI who spent a lot of money trying to
get rid of the onion blast disease. Today we are in a
situation, providing we do the right thing, where we can
have an onion crop year round. I am saying that we must
pay these costs. The Minister said they are not economic
costs. I agree they might not be economic costs, but that is
why we can afford to waive them. They are not tangible.
The important thing is the service, not the cost. There are
more long term benefits you can get by ignoring these
charges than if we implement these charges.

I will ask the Honourable Minister to rethink what he
has said. I agree it might have been a Cabinet decision, but
on June 6, 1995 when this was decided we did not have a
problem with the mealy bug, as far as I know, but this is
November 14,1995 and we have a problem with the mealy
bug.
Aside.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: If we do not have a
problem with the mealy bug, I stand to be corrected. If I
stand to be corrected, I feel the Press should stand to be
corrected too.
Sir, we also had a severe drought and the farmers ar§
only now getting back on their feet, so we have to give
them breathing space. Farmers on the Land Lease Project
are complaining that they have vegetables but they cannot
get them sold. There are other vegetables that are taking
over the market. Competition is good but we are aware that
most of our problems are imported, and I believe that most
of the diseases that are presently in this country are
imported diseases, and I am saying that wherever we can
keep out the foreign products we should, because then we
will be able to protect ourselves and our farmers.
We have other problems, Sir, where we do not know
when we will get a problem again with the root borer
disease in sugar cane. That is something a fee should be
charged for. Can you imagine if every plantation in this
country reports a problem with root borer disease and we
were to send officials from the Ministry of Agriculture to
set the pace, what cost that would be to our farmers? I can
tell you that they would ignore the problem and they would
be asking the Government for a subsidy. We have to weigh
the situation, whether we are prepared to charge fees to
these farmers or whether we are prepared to ignore the
fees, let them report the problems to us and we will solve
the problems and get the necessary foreign exchange.
Thank you very much, Sir,

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Speaker, during the
presentation of the Honourable Member for St. Andrew and
the Minister responsible for Public Works there was a
mention of a miscalculation of the amount of pipe needed
at the Barbados Water Authority. I would like to ask the
Minister if the contract has been awarded for the pipe to be
used on Highway 2 as yet
Mr. Speaker, I would also like to congratulate the
contractor who is building the road and that road I am
referring to is Highway 2A because I do not know if it was
by accident but 3 days before the flooding on Highway 1
the bridge was opened so that those people who had
problems travelling on Highway 1 were able to use the
road on Highway 2 going to the constituency of St. Lucy.
So I would like to congratulate the contractor for his
foresight in completing the bridge at the right time.
I would also like to congratulate the contractor for
doing some very good work on that highway. He has
proven to be a good contractor and he has proven to
Barbados that the faith that the Democratic Labour Party
put in him has turned out to be good judgment
Mr. Speaker, I would also like to find out if the
reason why the road leading from Clermont to Queen’s
College has not started as yet has anything to do with land
disputes and if there are still land disputes come September
if the contractor will be blamed for not completing the road
on time.
You see, Sir, I have been seeing articles in the
newspaper stating that the road is not being completed on
time and blaming the contractor. There are other reasons
why the road may not be on time and we still hope that
once he has been given the privilege and the right-away to
do the necessary things, and once the land has been
acquired, the road will be completed on time even though
there have been delays.
I hope, Sir, that the appropriate Minister will do the
necessary to make sure that there are no more stumbling
blocks in the contractor’s way and that the unfair criticism
that he has been getting will be stopped. Thank you very
much.

Hon. Miss H. E. THOMPSON: Mr. Speaker, Sir, as
the representative for St. James South, the Clermont Access
Road is in fact one of the boundary lines of my
constituency. This road runs through part of Prior Park,
Meadowvale Heights on to Glydor Gardens, down the hill
to what has traditionally been recognised as Clermont.
Many people are not aware that the development of Prior
Park runs all the way on to the Clermont Road, so a lot of
people describe Meadowvale Heights as being in Clermont
when in fact it is, physically, part of the Prior Park
development That happens not only to be the Constituency
that I represent but it is the area in which I live.
Now, it is the widening of this road that I really want
to compliment the Minister on. It is a marvellous project.
That area is one of the fastest growing developments in the
Island. In 1991 and just before, Meadowvale and part of
Glydor Gardens did not exist. With the last elections in
1994 parts of Clermont have grown, new developments
have come in. The Meadowvale Development of 60 houses,
I think it is, is now complete and all but a few houses
occupied. The same thing applies to Glydor Gardens. That
road, therefore, originally accommodated a smaller
residential district, that of the smaller Clermont with very
few houses. With the expansion of residential districts in
that area, including at the bottom of the hill, Warrens Park
North and Warrens Park South, a large number of people
now use that road as a major access on to Husbands and
Queen’s College on to Highway 2A, on to Highway 1, on
to the University Hill. It has become a widely travelled
road, not only by people living in the area but by people
using it as a link or feeder road. Increasingly, it gives
contact to the rest of the areas that I have described and
large vehicles and heavy duty vehicles also use it. This
road was not originally intended to accommodate this sort
of high volume traffic. I urge the Minister to bear in mind,
that when proposed residential developments come on
stream there will be a number of attendant problems related
to transportation and access.
As a matter of fact, and I am speaking purely in a
parochial context in relation to this matter, at the bottom of
the hill very close to Warrens Park North, there is a drain
that has a cover that was never fixed and whenever cars
pass over it, it flaps continually and in my view an open
drain of this type poses some sort of threat and really is a
nuisance to the people who live there because it means that
every time a motor vehicle goes over that drain there is a
lot of noise. People in the district, some of whom may be
sick or sleeping, people who are at home, or little children,
are constantly subjected to that noise. I know that part of
the plan is, and I have been able to speak with the engineer
on this, that that drain will finally be fixed and sealed and
properly done so as to mitigate and even remove this
nuisance.
It is also important to give adequate drainage to
this road because that area is prone to heavy flooding,
particularly the area of Clerview, which is in St. Michael
North but Glydor and Meadowvale are in the constituency
of St. James South.
On Thursday August 3rd, when we had the very
heavy flooding there was a call from Meadowvale
indicating that there was heavy flooding in the area.
Because of the threat posed to Weston, Meadowvale was
not given the sort of high priority and attention that it
should have been given. As a result we had people trapped
in houses at Meadowvale and outside of the development
people could not get in, with people having to park on the
main Clermont Road and wade or swim in. I did a tour of
that area on the Saturday immediately following the flood
and there were people in Meadowvale who lost everything,
particularly people living on the eastern side of the
Meadowvale Development. The water in meadowvale rose
to at least 6 feet I am told and residents of the area who
were in the region of 6 feet tall were the ones who had to
go into the houses and bring out women with babies and
helplessly watch cars floating away.
Even up to that Saturday morning, I did try to get
some help for them. Several residents who had two-storied
buildings were still completely flooded on their ground
floors with silt covering all of their furniture their entire
floors. They lost their stereos, videos and other electronic
equipment Meadowvale is really one of the disaster stories
of Thursday’s flooding but this is not widely known
because everybody focussed attention on Weston. I know
therefore that the Minister has in mind that when the road
is repaired and widened for the Meadowvale development
to be saved he will try to correct all of these problems.
I do not think, Mr. Speaker, that I am so far off the
mark if I try to draw to the attention of this Chamber and
to the attention of this country that part of the problem in
Meadowvale has to do with the developers. Sir, my
understanding is that the company which developed
Meadowvale has now gone into receivership and many of
the requirements of the Town Planning Department for
development of that area were never met. Several of the
wells that are existing are blocked and therefore those
drains did not take off the water and that is why there were
so many problems with flooding when the rain came.
In addition to that, the developer had intended to
continue another phase of that project and had built an
access road. After that company went bust, no attention at
all was paid to dealing with that road by this company, or
part of their settlement of accounts. As a result where the
road was to run there now exists large dug out areas,
perhaps as much as 8 feet wide and very deep. Whenever
it rains that area collects water and becomes virtually a
swimming pool and on Thursday the third, it collected so
much water that eventually it overflowed its banks and that
is part of the problem that helped to aggravate flooding in
Meadowvale. In consequence, the Ministry of Health and
the Environment had to go to the area and pump off and
oil and treat the water there to prevent mosquito infestation
and so on but it does form a very serious problem for the
people who live in Meadowvale Heights because quite
apart from the health risk of the infestation of mosquitoes
and so on, there is also the problem of flooding and loss of
property, damage to homes, and so forth and the problems
of access when it is raining as well as the problem of
drainage.
I think we also have to address this matter of how to
deal with developers who put people in such positions.
There are stories of them all over Barbados, of people who
go to developers who want to make quick money and
develop in such a way that maximum benefits are not
realised by the home owner who is left to endure problems
that the developers leave behind. 4.40 p.m.
In fact, the story at Meadowvale is that the developer
even left behind his doberman pincher guard dog and that
the residents of the area who were not afraid of it were
forced to feed it. This type of conduct is part of the culture
of developers but is adverse to the interests of the
community and we have to look at this if we are to protect
the interest of the citizen down the road. But to speak to
the immediate issue of the development of the Clermont
Road, I think that I should also point out, Mr. Speaker, that
on the northern side of that road there is a large number of
well-developed and mature trees. I would hope, as the
Minister who has the responsibility for the Environment,
that when the road is widened not only could we have
some kind of foot path along that very busy road which is
high in pedestrian traffic as well as vehicular traffic but
that seme thought will be given to the preservation of those
very beautiful and very valuable trees.
Mr. Speaker, every development and every policy
decision has the potential to impact either positively or
negatively on our citizens and I would wish to commend
the Minister for the positive impact which the development
of this road and widening of this road will bring to the
constituency of St. James South, but to remind him of the
negatives to which I have spoken and that we must now as
a Government address. Thank you, Sir.

Mr. D. St E. KELLMAN: Mr. Speaker, I would like
to support this bill also, but, I have a couple reservations
on this Trust Bill and I hope that we will not find ourselves
in a situation where we encourage companies to come to
Barbados where they have established pension funds
belonging to poor people in the United States, Canada or
England or elsewhere, where those people have a right to
have a claim on their pension funds and these companies
that we are encouraging to come to Barbados! we are
allowing them to hold on to the rights of the citizens and
beneficiaries of these pension funds.
As you are aware, Sir, and some Members of this
Honourable House will be aware that there are some local
companies which feel that they have a right to hold on to
trust funds even though they are only managing them. They
behave as if the funds belong to them and that the
beneficiaries of these funds do not have a right to take part
in these funds. 5.05 p.m.
1685
I am saying, Sir, that if this Trust Bill gives that right
to the overseas companies then I will have problems in
supporting this Bill. So I am hoping that the Honourable
Attorney General will assure me that these Trust
Companies would not behave in the same way that local
Trust Companies do behave in Barbados where they hold
on to poor people’s money and refuse to pay them. I hope,
Sir, that when the Attorney General addresses this matter
that he would assure me that the international companies
would not be operating like the local companies. Thank
you very much, Sir.

Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Speaker, when one
listens to the Honourable Member for St. James North, one
gets the impression that rural Barbados is some place one
should not live. I was wondering where he got that
impression from. But when I look at the manifesto of the
Barbados Labour Party I observed that it is in the
manifesto of the Barbados Labour Party that he got this
impression:
“But many districts in rural Barbados have not kept
pace with modern development due in major part to
the dislocations and loss of employment resulting
from the indiscriminate fragmentation of prime
agricultural land.”
It goes on:
“The decline of traditional communities poses
considerable difficulty in maintaining law and order
and sustaining the stability and prosperity of rural
society. We will rebuild strong, vibrant rural
communities in which our people will find it desirable
to reside, work and play.”
I cannot believe Sir, that this is the same rural
Barbados I know, because if you want to talk about vibrant
communities in Barbados the place to find those vibrant
communities is in rural Barbados where you get the
oneness and sharing of ideas etc. So I cannot see how you
can associate crime with rural Barbados when the
Honourable Attorney General, the Member for St. Thomas,
at one stage in this same Parliament was talking about
closing the police station at Crab Hill, St. Lucy.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Nor did I say so. I said it

was the manifesto that said that

Asides,
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: I am not going to
get involved in that, Mr. Speaker. To structure a rural
development policy based only on agriculture in rural
Barbados is a big flaw because if one has to be serious….

Hon. Miss B. A. MILLER: Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a
point of order. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hold in my hand the
1984 Manifesto of the Barbados Labour Party. I am
looking at page 29 - Rural Development The third
paragraph. No reference whatsoever to crime. It is a grave
misdirection of this Chamber for the Honourable Member
to suggest that the Barbados Labour Party Manifesto is
seeking to link urban development with crime. If I may
read, Sir. The third paragraph says that a decline of
traditional communities poses considerable difficulties in
maintaining law and order and sustaining the stability and
prosperity of rural societies. How can this possibly be
interpreted to import crime?
Mr. SPEAKER: Let us proceed, please.
Mr. D. St E. KELLMAN: Mr. Speaker, I am no
lawyer but law and order …
Aside.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: I have no problem with
that, Mr. Speaker, but I am saying, Sir, if we are going to
have a policy which states that agriculture is going to be
the bedrock one would have thought that as I have said in
this Honourable House already that the Barbados
Agricultural Management Company should set up an agroprocessing
plant and I have not seen that so I cannot see
how you can be speaking about agriculture and giving the
impression that the only job that can be created for the
people in rural Barbados is jobs from agriculture.
I am saying, Sir, that in rural Barbados there is room
for hotel plant I am saying, Sir, that at the Naval Base
Facility the facilities are there that a hotel can be
constructed or the buildings can be refurbished where
people in rural Barbados can get employment, and I am not
talking about at the end of the ladder. I am saying that we
have a good opportunity to provide local management for
something that is owned by Barbadians at the Naval Base
in St Lucy.
Further to that, Sir, it gives a good opportunity and I
believe that is what the Honourable Member for Christ
Church West had in his mind when he took a strong stance
against the Naval Base being in St. Lucy because he saw
the opportunity where we could have developed the Naval
Base for poor people in Barbados to get an opportunity to
be involved in the hotel industry in this country.
At North Point, Sir, we have another facility there
which could be developed, and you are talking about
developing rural Barbados? In rural Barbados we have
areas where we could develop health tourism.
Aside.
Mr. D. St E. KELLMAN: No problem, Sir, but it is
in our minds. That is the important thing. Further to that,
Sir, we have the Cove Bay and we have River Bay. These
are all areas that if they are developed properly that we can
provide meaningful employment for our people. I see Pico
Teneriffe, the Drax Hall area, the area of the Lion at Gun
Hill and also in St. Philip. When I hear people talking
about rural Barbados sometimes I wonder where is Ruby
Park and all those developments that you mentioned last
Tuesday. I wonder if it is the same rural Barbados that we
are speaking about.
Mr. Speaker, I hear people come to this House of
Assembly and they would give the impression that nothing
has been done for rural Barbados. It is true that some
things might not have been done that were planned. Prior
to 1976, in the Manifesto of the Democratic Labour Party
there was a plan for a small airport in St Lucy at Spring
Garden. As the Honourable Member for Christ Church
South would know, that is on flat land and it would
have been a good area for a small airport He would also
know that after 1976 the Barbados Labour Party came to
Government and what happened to that plan.
I also remember, Mr. Speaker, that Heywoods was a
project started by the Democratic Labour Party to help
develop Speightstown and we knew that you could not only
have a hotel but you had to have other things. That is why
we bought the St. Joseph Hospital to make sure that when
you develop rural Barbados, especially in the Northern
areas, that you would have the necessary health facilities in
those areas.
I want to go back to the agro-processing plant and I
want to tell you that if you are thinking about agriculture
and you are only thinking about agriculture dealing with
sugar cane you have no plans because I cannot support it.
You are not going to get small people going back into the
planting of sugar cane. If you are going to encourage small
people to be involved in the agricultural industry what you
have to do is set up an agro-processing plant.
This is my plan, Sir. I feel, as I have said before, that
the Barbados Agricultural Management Company is on a
good foundation now to set up an agro-processing plant It
has leased many plantations and it needs to lease some
more.
Aside.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: No, no, the Barbados
Agricultural Management Company because there is a need
for the BAMC and the BADMC to come together. The
time is right. We should not have two bodies. I am saying,
Sir, that since 1991, after the structural programme of the
Democratic Labour Party, a lot of Barbadians got involved
in agriculture. Do you know what they were doing, Sir?
They were using the land at the back of their homes and
planting vegetables and this caused us to have gluts. The
only way that we can solve that problem and at the same
time make sure that the consumers in this country can pay
a good price for the produce they are buying is if we
encourage people to mass produce, or encourage everybody
to produce. But, Sir, if you do that you are going to have
a surplus we have to ask ourselves, what are we going to
do with the surplus? Are you going to continue dumping
the surplus, Sir? But if you have a processing plant, Sir,
you can these things. You can do many things with them.
But with the Barbados Agricultural Management Company
which will be given the mandate to buy the vegetables and
distribute the vegetables. When I say distribute the
vegetables, I do not mean locally because I honestly feel
that with the amount of land that they have in their
possession and the technology that they have in place they
should be exporting to the other Caribbean countries and
they should also be exporting to North America. I cannot
understand why we should be buying vegetables from
North America when they can only grow vegetables in
three months out of the year and we have the capacity of
growing vegetables for 12 months and yet we want to buy
vegetables from them. 12.10 p.m.
I cannot understand that, Sir, and I am saying that
with the structure in place at the BAMC that we have a
good foundation to be exporting vegetables to North
America instead of importing, Sir. But we must have the
processing plant, Sir. The small fanners will be able to
grow the vegetables and supply the local market. The
BAMC will be able to plant their vegetables for the export
market. Any surplus from the other plantations and other
growers whether it is the Springhall Land Lease Project
will be able to come to the BAMC and decide whether
they want to export the vegetables or whether they want to
can them.
But I go back to 1967 again, Sir. I do not mind going
back and talking about the no cane blade speech, Sir. I
maintain that, if that statement was taken in the right
context, I would not have to be here today talking about an
agro-processing plant because we would have done it since
1967 and we would not be importing all of these
vegetables from Trinidad and Jamaica. Because we would
have been exporting these vegetables to Trinidad.
One would not believe, Sir, that a country like
Trinidad that depended on oil dollar for all of the years
could now be exporting vegetables to Barbados when we
had the golden opportunity to be exporting vegetables to
Trinidad. If they could have done it in those short years,
think of what would have happened if we had started in
1967.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we also have to be very careful on
how we are closing schools because in rural Barbados if
we really have a good plan for rural Barbados the evidence
is there that, instead of people leaving rural Barbados to go
to urban Barbados, you are going to have people leaving
urban Barbados to come to rural Barbados. With that
scenario, Sir, you will have a situation where there will be
a great demand for schools in rural Barbados. It might not
happen tomorrow, Sir, but it is going to happen.
Talking about the problems of rural Barbados, Sir,
road improvements. That is true. Road improvements and
lighting - that is true. You see, Mr. Speaker, one has to
understand rural Barbados. Rural Barbados is that part of
Barbados where people as soon as they get money they
construct homes and they do not normally construct a home
where a road is. They construct their home where they own
a piece of land or where the land is owned by someone
who is close to them or a friend that is prepared to rent
that piece of land to them. So what you will get

is a situation where a piece of land that was once used for the
cultivation of sugar cane, a youngster comes along and gets
involved with a lady -1 am being practical about this, Mr.
Speaker - sets up a family and he realizes that he has to
get a home. He goes to his neighbour or his father or
somebody like that, Sir, and he says that we are involved
and we want to marry and we need to have our own roof.
Permission is given that there is a quarter acre of land out
there and you can put your house on it. That is the talk you
hear in rural Barbados. They go and construct the home
and they do not think whether there is a road. They think
of the home. Then someone realizes that Mr. X built a
house next door and the trend goes on. Then you get 12 or
15 houses on one side. Then there is the need for lighting
and there is the need for roads and the other amenities.
So when you are speaking about rural Barbados, rural
Barbados cannot really be compared to urban Barbados
because the thoughts are different You take the Democratic
Labour Party. They might go in and build 20 roads and by
the next 5 years there would be 20 more roads to be built
somewhere else. Because in rural Barbados instead of
waiting on Government to build apartments, Sir, you find
a situation where the individuals look after the building of
the homes, et cetera and then they look to Government to
come along and put in the necessary amenities. That is why
sometimes, Sir, you will find such a situation. You take the
constituency in which I represent, Sir. You can build so
many roads but in 5 years time you will need another 40
because those people get together and help one another to
build houses and when the houses are built the roads are
needed. So nobody has to come and tell me that I sent a
letter for 40 roads because development in rural Barbados,
especially the one that I am representing is growing so fast
that you can never keep pace with the number of roads or
street lighting that you have to put in place. That is why I
can afford to say, Sir, that you have to be very careful of
how you are closing schools down in rural Barbados
because there is going to be a great demand for schools in
rural Barbados within the next five years.
Craft, Sir - we have to ask ourselves what we are
going to do about craft and what we are going to put in
place to make sure that when all of these all-inclusive
hotels are set up on the West Coast how my people in rural
Barbados will be able to attract the tourists into rural
Barbados and get some of the money. Because by the time
all of the hoteliers decide that they want all-inclusive
tourism we have to find a way in rural Barbados whether
it be sports tourism or craft to make sure that we can
attract the tourists into rural Barbados. I am saying that any
rural programme must have things in place to facilitate
craft and sports tourism also, Sir.
We are hearing a lot of talk about how many roads
would be built, et cetera. But I want to remind this House,
Sir, that September 7, 1994, and I know that the new
servants would not forget this date, that we had a lot of
rain in Barbados and many roads in Barbados were
damaged. Yes, Mr. Speaker, many roads in rural Barbados
were damaged because the majority of rain was in rural
Barbados and I have not seen the repair job yet. If you go
through Crab Hill, whether it is No. 1 or No. 2, or if you
go through Stroud Bay Road - Yes, down by your friend
- you would realize, Mr. Speaker, that the roads in rural
Barbados and I am not speaking about new roads but I am
talking about roads that have been destroyed since
September 7. There is the need to have them repaired and
I do not want to hear that the Democratic Labour Party was
in Government and they did not repair them. Because there
was no need to repair them. It was according to them the
showers of blessing that destroyed the roads in rural
Barbados.
Aside.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Speaker, as I have
said before, rural Barbados is expanding at such a rate that
we need to see the main road going right through Crab
Hill. It needs widening and, if you are discussing rural
Barbados the same road that the Honourable Member for
St. James North mentioned in Stroud Bay leading right
down to the beach and since we are dealing with ways to
attract the tourists away from the hotels on the West Coast
and get them into rural Barbados, I want to see a road built
from the top of Stroud Bay Road right down to the beach
in rural Barbados. In that way the youngsters in Stroud Bay
Road will be able to set up their craft centres, et cetera and
get some of the tourist dollars in the same way as the
people on the West Coast who believe that all of the
money belong to them. My people in rural Barbados might
get some, yes, as you would know.
I also would like to see, Sir, in developing rural
Barbados a bridge constructed from…yes, this is part of
rural development in rural Barbados…River Bay to Bishops.
I would like to see a bridge constructed from River
Bay leading to Bishops, Sir, so that when they pass through
River Bay they can go straight on to Bishops, on to the
Cove. Free access, Sir. We will save some foreign
exchange, we will not have to waste so much gas driving
right around. We would like to see a lot of things being
done in rural Barbados, and I would really encourage you,
Sir, to take a trip to rural Barbados in the constituency of
St. Lucy and you will realise that there are certain
amenities. We do not mind it being called rural, but we
like the development that is going on. Once you come and
you do the things I have asked since September, once you
do the things in rural Barbados, little Barbados would be a
paradise, but the problem is not doing the things, it is
doing them correctly.
I hope that after the notes have been taken and the
policies put in place - and I hope they will accept what I
have said and put them in place - because if I observe that
they are putting the right things in place, I also have
another master plan for them which I will not give them
now. They have to show me that they are genuinely willing
to assist - I cannot really use the word “assist” after the
work that the Democratic Labour Party has done in rural
Barbados - after they have shown me that they are willing
to continue the policy…..
Aside,
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: That is not true. Mr.
Speaker, I saw in the newspaper that there was this $200
million or $400 million rural programme and I saw that the
main beneficiary of this rural programme was the
Honourable Member for St. George South and the
Honourable Member for St. Lucy. That was started in the
90s. I do not know, I have to investigate it I do not know
if they have plans for isolating St. George South and St.
Lucy and that is why it was in the newspaper, but I know
that there was a rural programme left by the Democratic
Labour Party, which was started, I know that we started to
get some benefits and I am aware that my friend got some.
All I am asking is that they will continue the rural
programme and not only do the highways, but that they
will do the tenantries, because there is a belief in this
country that once you build highways people in rural
Barbados will benefit. That is not true, Sir. When you build
a tenantry road, the people in rural Barbados will benefit
from it, because they know how to do the necessary to
improve their infrastructure, el cetera.
I also want to see in rural Barbados the infrastructure
in place, the same thing you have in urban Barbados. I do
not see why a constituent of mine would have to leave St.
Lucy to come to Bridgetown to get a passport. I am not
saying that you should put an office in St. Lucy, but you
can put it in Speightstown. I also would like to see that my
constituent should not have to go to the Pine to renew his
driver’s licence. He should be able to do the same thing in
Speightstown. Likewise, those from St. Philip have to go
to Christ Church, as the Honourable Member for St. Philip
North will agree. I am saying that if you put a proper
facility in place in rural Barbados, where the people from
rural Barbados can access these services, the demand for
having to go into urban Barbados would not be there and
they would be able to attract people coming the other way.
When you are coming to this House fo speak about
rural Barbados and you are going to bring a half-baked
policy, I cannot support it. I want to see everything, I want
to see the infrastructure in place, because it is a waste of
time asking people to go and do certain things and at the
end of the day they do not have any place to market their
produce or to provide services. These things must be put in
place and if you put these things in place the people will
believe that you are serious and they would give you 100%
backing.
I remember when we wanted to put an agricultural
policy in place to export vegetables. We set up the BMC
and then encouraged the farmers to produce more. The
farmers did it because they were aware that the Democratic
Labour Party had set up the BMC and they could produce
and send their produce to the BMC. If we did not do that,
the farmers would have ignored us, but they knew that the
BMC was there to buy the vegetables, and they knew the
BMC would have bought their produce no matter what
quantity they produced. I am saying that if you want to
develop agriculture in rural Barbados you have to find
outlets for the farmers to gain their confidence that there
will be somewhere for them to sell their produce at the end
of the day.
One has to be very careful. I do not mind large
farmers taking advantage of the market, but sometimes we
have to be very careful how we encourage small farmers to
get involved in things. If you take a drive from Warren’s
roundabout, Sir, to Mobil gas station in Redmans Village,
you would see a large structure where very soon you would
be able to buy all the produce you want. That produce
would not be bought from small farmers, it would be
grown on large estates in Barbados. What you are having
is that the small men, as I refer to them, in Redmans
Village who would normally sell their vegetables at the
street corners are going to be competing now with some
large farmers who have come together and applied some
more pressure to my people. I am saying if you have a
rural programme and the large farmers are coming together
- and they have the land, they know where to put up their
structures. The small farmers cannot do it, because they
find sometimes that they would go and set up, let us say,
in Redmans Village and three days after something else is
opened and somebody will come to them and say: “This is
my land, you will have to move.” It is those people we
have to protect, If we are encouraging people to go into
agriculture, we must first convince those people that we
have outlets for them and avenues where they will be able
to get rid of their produce.
Sir, I would also like to see the Minister of Tourism
encouraging or asking the Barbados Tourism Authority to
get together with the various groups in rural Barbados -
and if she wants advice on this she can seek the advice
from the Honourable Member for St. Michael South East
- to see how we can develop our community tourism, our
sports tourism, so that when the people come off the cruise
liners they can come into the districts and be part of our
community.
1606
Mr. Speaker, tourism in Barbados has been developed
by the people of Barbados and what saddens me is to see
that there is a group of people who are forgetting that
tourism was developed by the people of Barbados and they
are trying now to alienate the tourists from Barbadians. We
are fast asking Barbadians to behave like Jamaicans or
other Caribbean people, or other people in the world, where
they see tourists as not part of them. Tourism is supposed
to be our business, so if tourism is our business we must
be part of the business. We cannot just be people seen as
those who would just say “Yes, Sir”, “Yes, Ma’am” and
that is all, we must share in the cake; and in order for us
to appreciate it more, we must get some of the benefits.

Mr. Speaker, I have already said what I had to say on
all-inclusive tourism and I will not say anymore. The day
is going to come in this country when we will brag that we
are making $3 billion from tourism and then the bankers in
New York or in Miami will be saying that they have
accounts holding for people in tourism for $5 or $6 billion
dollars and it will not be of any benefit to the people here
in Barbados. Then you will get a situation where the
bankers down town will start to cry out and they will start
supporting the small people in the districts in rural
Barbados. Do you know why, Mr. Speaker? Because the
hoteliers will not be borrowing from them anymore. They
will be using some of their funds overseas so they will start
feeling the crunch and they then will understand the
feelings of the small people in this country.
It seems to me, Mr. Speaker, that once people are
getting through they do not care what happens to other
people, but that is not me. 1 represent small people in this
country and whenever 1 see something happening to my
people I must speak out against it. That is why I will speak
out, whether it be all-inclusive tourism, whether it be
people who decide to set out large plants to run out small
people or not, I will speak out, Sir. Thank you very much.

Mr. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St.
Lucy.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: Mr. Speaker, we will be
supporting this Resolution also but I want to make a couple
observations on these loans. Mr. Speaker, for years, since
1985 we have been seeing a particular emphasis being
placed on interest rates whenever loans are borrowed and
we do not put any emphasis on the currency the loan is
being borrowed in. I want to warn this House that if you
are going to be borrowing money, interest rates will not be
the only factor that should be taken into account. There is
something called foreign exchange gains and foreign
exchange losses that you must place some emphasis on. I
am going to give you an example, Sir. In 1990 a loan was
raised on the English market for £30 million. We in
Barbados got $120 million at that point in time. If we did
not repay one single cent of that loan and you were to pick
up the phone now and call the Central Bank and ask them
how much money is owed to the English lender they would
tell you that we probably owe $90 million or $100 million
without repaying one single cent. I am saying, Sir, that
when people come to this House…
Aside.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: No, it is not a criticism, it
is a praise. Let me explain, Mr. Speaker. Let me explain it
again, Mr. Speaker. In 1990, the pound was over $4 which
meant that the $30 million would have given us $120
million or more. Today the pound is $3.16 which means
that it would have been $94 800 000. Foreign exchange
gains to the country would have been the difference
of $120 million and the $94 800 000 which would work
out to about $25 200 000. 4.05 p.m.
Sir, when you are borrowing money you have to look
at the rate and you have to ask yourself whether the
currency is going to increase, appreciate or whether it is
going to fall. We found ourselves on many occasions
borrowing money on the international market, especially
the yen market, and I want to say there is nothing wrong
with borrowing a bullet loan, but there is something wrong
in borrowing a loan when there is evidence that the
economy of the country that you are borrowing from is
growing and the strength of the currency is increasing all
the time.
What it means, Sir, is that when you come to repay
the loan, instead of having to pay a constant amount, you
have to pay an increased amount. What we had in the 80s…
Aside.
Mr. D. St. E. KELLMAN: I am very happy to hear
you use the word “hedging”. I want to congratulate the
present Governor of the Central Bank for introducing
“hedging”, because if the previous Governors of the Central
Bank had listened to me earlier they would have introduced
that.
You see, Mr. Spe.aker, we cannot talk about
borrowing money and only speak about interest rates. There
are other things that affect the loans. We have to be very
careful and this Resolution is rather interesting because if
you look at Item 4 and then you compare 9, you can
understand where the Prime Minister was coming from.
That is why he can afford to talk about keeping the rate at
10% because he is not going to get the money from the
Central Bank but he is going to borrow it overseas. Later
on, he will probably introduce something which would give
him some more revenue.
Sir, I do not know whether 17.5 is the right figure or
whether 10 but we are dealing with $40 million to help the
finances of the Government. US$40 million is $80 million
and this has something to do with 10% of the borrowing
from the Central Bank. The Honourable Member for St.
Peter would know that. So don’t let them mislead you, Sir.
You see, Sir, all I would like to say on this matter is
that when we borrow loans I want to hear whether we
made a foreign exchange gain or whether we made a
foreign exchange loss and I want to know the quantum. I
do not want to hear about interest rates. If you are
borrowing on the U.S. market, I don’t want to hear
anything about your foreign exchange gains or losses
because the dollar is tied to the U.S. dollar, so there will be
no foreign exchange gains or losses.
When you are borrowing on the English market, the
European market or the Japanese market, I want to hear
about the foreign exchange gains and losses and when you
tell me about the foreign exchange gains or losses then I
can tell you whether it is a good loan or not. Thank you.
Hon. Sir Harold St. JOHN: I just want to add a few
words

SWEET POTATO MASHED; SPLIT PEAS AND RICE

SPAGHETTI WITH MINCED MEAT; MACARONI PIE

BAKED LAMB; BAKED CHICKEN

GRILLED TUNA; FRIED SNAPPER

PORK STEW; FISH GRAVY

STEAMED VEG; SALADS

Robert Le Hunte

Published on: 7/13/2009.

by GERALYN EDWARD

IT WILL BE a three-way battle for control of CLICO Mortgage and Finance as two non-bank financial institutions and a commercial bank are now vying for its ownership.

Consolidated Finance, a subsidiary of ANSA McAL Barbados Ltd, has confirmed to BARBADOS BUSINESS AUTHORITY that it too wants the mortgage company that is owned by CLICO Holdings Barbados.

ANSA McAL Barbados is a subsidiary of ANSA McAL of Trinidad and Tobago.

Moreover, impeccable sources have told this newspaper that another Barbados-based non-bank financial institution has also entered a bid to take over the CLICO mortgage company.

However, when a call was made to its chief executive, he refused to confirm or deny the report.

President of Consolidated Finance John MacKenzie said in an exclusive interview on Friday that the acquisition of CLICO Mortgage and Finance would give it access to a significant mortgage market that it did not have.

He added: “CLICO Mortgage and Finance is a very well-run institution. It would be governed under the same rules that we are governed under by the Central Bank of Barbados, therefore it has to be a solid stand-alone operation. . . .

“I know the manager there well and he is a very sharp person. Those are among the reasons why we were interested in it.”

According to MacKenzie: “If you want to expand there are two ways of doing it - either grab more market share, or you expand through acquisition.

“We are in a market that is a very mature market which is shrinking, primarily the automotive side of things, and you can’t possibly grab more market share. So it leaves you little option unless you want to remain stagnant.”

Advancing Consolidated Finance’s presence in the lucrative mortgage market has “always been in the background,” he added.

Barbados National Bank, whose managing director and chief executive officer Robert Le Hunte confirmed two weeks ago that it was bidding for control of the CLICO Holdings Barbados subsidiary, said it was very interested in owning the company.

Le Hunte too described the CLICO subsidiary, with an asset base of just over $100 million, as an “efficient and well-run institution”.

Earlier this year Government and CLICO Barbados agreed to establish a six-member committee to oversee the operations of CLICO Holdings’ financial companies and possible sale of these entities.

The businesses in the CLICO group under the Government-led committee are CLICO Mortgage and Finance, CLICO General Insurance, CLICO International Life and the CLICO Balanced Fund.

Nation News

Young men refresh themselves under a dousing that has become a staple at the annual Wet Fte event.

The Cockspur Caribbean Wet Fête started with a moderate splash yesterday evening with some of the early birds taking advantage of the deejay entertainment, water hoses and showers.

Many in the crowd opted for a bit of shade in the blistering sun during the opening acts of the ten-hour show.

Several popular artistes for the season performed on the card, including Li’l Rick, Mikey, Contone, Timmy, Peter Ram, Salt and others.

Trinidad Carnival icons Super Blue, Fay-Ann Lyons and Bunji Garlin, as well as Alan Sheppard of Spice & Co fame, headlined the show.